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terrorist dry runs?

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terrorist dry runs?

Old 25th Oct 2013, 13:31
  #41 (permalink)  
JamieE
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There will always need to be a balance in this.

I think that as long as we all keep the F/D door secure we should be in good shape with the security measures for the cabin as stringent as they are.

I did have to break into the F/D of my aircraft on the ground when I was locked out and it was extremely difficult and could only be done on the ground!!
 
Old 26th Oct 2013, 14:04
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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As a passenger it never ceases to amaze me the vulnerability of the cockpit. If you travel anyway beyond row 7 on a Boeing 737-800 e.g it would not be difficult to get in to the cockpit, when the hosties open the door to give the flight crew tucker. I presume the airlines have some SOPs for when the cockpit door is opened. I hope so anyway.
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 14:51
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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From my experience, as a uk pax I have noted that another member of the c/c stands at the front viewing down the aisle of the a/c while the other c/c enters the f/d.

Last edited by dazdaz1; 27th Oct 2013 at 13:36.
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 15:20
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by piggyback
My experience immediately post 911 was that the profiling was completely crazy and blatantly racist.

In a queue I was in every non-white in the queue was selected for search, no white was searched. It included a black family who were incredibly loud and american annoying perhaps but given a mum dad and two kids not much of a threat. As I was white I did not get searched myself.
Ye Gods.

Something to do with the fact that the 9/11 terrorists were Arabs ???

It is unfortunate that attitudes such as yours are why we see flight deck crew screened and why clearly obviously non-threatening people are pulled for searches.

There is an old saying along the lines - If it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it squawks like a duck then the chances are it IS a duck.


Bearing in mind the profile of the Muslim terrorists (Arab or African Somali) it is not unreasonable to concentrate on those fitting those descriptions. If those people have a problem, with that then the answer lays in their own hands, and with the Countries who either overtly support the terrorist goal, or are happy to stand back and not get involved. I see some of these Countries have little problem in targeting white people when it comes to Religious issues. but little is said, presumably because PC only applies to white, Anglo-Saxon and derivative peoples.
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Old 27th Oct 2013, 12:34
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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So why are the UK and other authorities so obsessed with preventing "friendly forces" from occupying the jumpseat when it is patently obvious with most aircraft jumps assembled and occupied, it would be exceedingly difficult for the wild-eyed hairy-faced fundamentalists to gain access when the door is open?

But check with your chain of command when you'd like to give someone with a known pedigree a flight deck experience ride, or help some employee/relative to get from A-B when the cabin is full.

If I thought there was/is an increased threat I'd want it occupied ALL the time.

Of course following the EASA FTLs discussion we could be usefully flying schedulers and CEOs around regularly, thereby increasing the defence of the flight deck and educating the blunt end as to what it's really like?!

And then I woke up and realised it was a dream..............
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Old 27th Oct 2013, 16:02
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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As a passenger it never ceases to amaze me the vulnerability of the cockpit. If you travel anyway beyond row 7 on a Boeing 737-800 e.g it would not be difficult to get in to the cockpit, when the hosties open the door to give the flight crew tucker. I presume the airlines have some SOPs for when the cockpit door is opened. I hope so anyway.
Video cameras are also used. The door is not opened unless the area is clear and a cabin crew member is monitoring the FD entry.
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Old 27th Oct 2013, 16:26
  #47 (permalink)  

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Video cameras are also used. The door is not opened unless the area is clear and a cabin crew member is monitoring the FD entry.
If you know something, wouldn't it be better to say nothing?
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Old 27th Oct 2013, 19:05
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fantom
If you know something, wouldn't it be better to say nothing
The paranoia that some of you lot exhibit

You are playing straight into our (Western) governements' hands! They WANT you to be scared so you will do as you're told. Bl00dy get over it

And while we're on the subject: Bin the stupid yellow jackets, the barbed wire, ridiculous security at LHR making sure operating crew don't carry a little tub of chilli sauce on board, the prat from security that has to 'check' my ID when I walk around my large A1 filled jet (the one with the very sharp crash-axe in the front). Well - you get my drift!

S E R I O U S L Y
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Old 27th Oct 2013, 19:28
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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White Knight - give the 'prat from security' a break. He's checking to make sure it's really you, and not me. Actually not exactly me either since I personally have no interest in harming anything but you get the idea.
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Old 27th Oct 2013, 20:37
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Not allowed to take anything sharp past security (SLF). Once past, order burger and fries from the Wetherspoons in the departure lounge and am given...a knife!
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Old 28th Oct 2013, 07:49
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing to do with security

I think you all must remember that the UK's security regulations are primarily intended to protect govenment ministers and civil servants from critsisum in the press.

A whole raft of the regulations are utterly useless from a security point of view and some are counterproductive but even if the minister in charge can see this he won't do a thing about it because some one with a financial interest in the yogurt police will leak a story to the press that he is being weak on security.
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Old 28th Oct 2013, 09:53
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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A&C. NICE ONE, YOU'VE ILLUMINATED THE TARGET!

Pity it's not with a [email protected] sight?!
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Old 28th Oct 2013, 11:57
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing to do with security
I think you all must remember that the UK's security regulations are primarily intended to protect govenment ministers and civil servants from critsisum in the press.

A whole raft of the regulations are utterly useless from a security point of view and some are counterproductive but even if the minister in charge can see this he won't do a thing about it because some one with a financial interest in the yogurt police will leak a story to the press that he is being weak on security.
The sad thing is, if you put the minister the civil servant and the journalist in a room together they could probably all agree that the whole security situation has got kind of silly. Unwieldy, inconsistent and way out of proportion to the risks.

But then they return to their desks and realise they have careers to preserve. No politician ever got fired for a "tough on terror" attitude. No journalist even got fired for being tough on politicians and civil servants. And so the whole thing staggers on like some sort of headless chicken.
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Old 29th Oct 2013, 00:43
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Old 2nd Nov 2013, 06:30
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Media back to fear mongering again, it's been a long time!
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Old 2nd Nov 2013, 08:19
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Dont Hang Up , Excellent post, sums it up 100%
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Old 2nd Nov 2013, 09:35
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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What exemplified for me the total stupidity of the security systems in place was when I flew GA into Bratislava last year. Imagine the scenario: I return to the GA terminal which is at least 300m away from the passenger terminal, a lone Pilot about to be escorted back to his Spam Can; my licence and paperwork are all in order, however security determines that my Swiss Army Knife, the bottle opener part of which I use to loosen the oil dipstick should the Incredible Hulk have tightened it down on the previous flight, could not be taken on board as it's a security risk.....

I asked the security guard what he thought I was going to do with the knife - slit my own throat? Did it not occur to him if I wanted to cause maximum damage, I could just point my Spam Can at a target on the ground and hey presto...

It's not the paranoia which gets me, it's the fact that people cannot THINK. Yes, there might be a rule for swiss army knives being taken on commercial aviation but I wasn't commercial aviation, I was the sole occupant of a spam can......

... what makes it all the more ridiculous is that at Geneva Airport you can BUY the same knife AFTER security......

Last edited by Steve6443; 2nd Nov 2013 at 09:37.
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Old 2nd Nov 2013, 19:50
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Steve6443 , the point is that there is no one authorized to pass security with a weapon. Who says you will not pass the knife on to someone who's not flying with you (fueller, mechanic,...) and this person might pass it on to let's say the cleaning staff......
I'm trying to explain this every time to my cabin crew when they complain about security again. Think further than just yourself.

Last edited by shockcooling; 2nd Nov 2013 at 19:52.
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Old 2nd Nov 2013, 20:32
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Shockcooling

You have missed the point.......if you are trusted to fly the aircraft you should be trusted with the equipment neded to do the preflight inspection on your aircraft.

The security paranoia tail is wagging the flight saftey dog.
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Old 2nd Nov 2013, 21:51
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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You have missed the point.......if you are trusted to fly the aircraft you should be trusted with the equipment neded to do the preflight inspection on your aircraft.
and

however security determines that my Swiss Army Knife,
So A & C, are you saying that a Swiss army knife is an excepted "tool" to do a walk around.
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