Southwest KLGA gear collapse.
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LSM, certainly it would, although I recognise that the FD may have other priorities on their mind before making a PA. In the meantime I have reviewed the SWA video (on page 1) and the first PA announcement, which is from the CC is "Ladies and gentlemen, we are not there, you need to take your seats". She clearly was either not aware of the situation or, being in shock due to the unexpected aspect of the occurence, reverted to standard PA used when approaching the gate and pax start to get up. I'm sure she was a well trained professional. As I said, we don't really know how we would react in a real scenario.
Last edited by Hotel Tango; 24th Jul 2013 at 13:13.
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I think many would open the exit.
Not sure on who's wording it is but
...in the event of an accident AND only when instructed to do so.....
Firstly, the first bit is what sticks in your mind, not the bit after the AND.
Secondly, the first is irrelevant, better would be "If instructed by the crew to open the exit...."
I have a horrible feeling that when I am next to an over-wing exit I will probably have that door open and thrown out a.s.a.p. Whether I would actually get out is secondary.
Of course, I can't be sure, it has never happened, but I doubt I am an extreme case. I am wired to act in an emergency and 2000-3000 safety briefings is not likely to change that, though a few actual practice events probably would. You guys get to train this stuff, we do not. What if you were just told what to do in the case of an engine failure but never actually got to practice one?
...in the event of an accident AND only when instructed to do so.....
Firstly, the first bit is what sticks in your mind, not the bit after the AND.
Secondly, the first is irrelevant, better would be "If instructed by the crew to open the exit...."
I have a horrible feeling that when I am next to an over-wing exit I will probably have that door open and thrown out a.s.a.p. Whether I would actually get out is secondary.
Of course, I can't be sure, it has never happened, but I doubt I am an extreme case. I am wired to act in an emergency and 2000-3000 safety briefings is not likely to change that, though a few actual practice events probably would. You guys get to train this stuff, we do not. What if you were just told what to do in the case of an engine failure but never actually got to practice one?
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SoS, in theory one would think so, I agree. But it's not 100% guaranteed and, as I said, there comes a moment when self preservation kicks in.
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when seated next to over-wing emergency exit
As a pax I recall being asked if I speak English and if I feel capable of opening the over wing door. I was also asked to read the safety sheet. I don't recall ever being briefed to wait until instructed by CC before opening the door. I'm sure the safety sheet said, 'check outside for fire / hazards before opening'. I would wait for guidance from CC but I wouldn't wait long!
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I would wait for guidance from CC but I wouldn't wait long!
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I have read that the aircraft came out of "inspection" on July 18th. Anyone else see this? If true it would be "interesting" to know it the gear was out during the work.
landing gear
I remember the port main gear fell out over puchong in malaysia due to an incorrectly sized gland nut fitted to the main oleo strut.The a/c..a B737-200 made a perfect landing ..the crew had 3 greens so were unaware till touchdown!
Boeing along with other a/c types have a litany of problems which manifest themselves over time as the a/c type ages..and the occasional lapse in maintainence and equipt fails !!!
Boeing along with other a/c types have a litany of problems which manifest themselves over time as the a/c type ages..and the occasional lapse in maintainence and equipt fails !!!
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Well, sure as f*** no Boeing nosegear ever got stuffed up into the equipment bay without severe provocation - and that ain't by anything less than 'mishandling". Boeing nosegears are built like the proverbial brick outhouses.
This wans't a passive "structural failure" for sure, tho it seems more then likely to be an induced one...
This wans't a passive "structural failure" for sure, tho it seems more then likely to be an induced one...
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If you fly the 737NG or fly for Southwest then I'm all ears. Since you don't do either, lets continue with the thread.
So, no , I don't fly for SWA, but I do fly for a major and know many SWA pilots.
All ears now?
Lets continue with this thread.
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I agree that the cause of this accident was most likely a hard, nose-first landing but I can't see how anyone can say this for sure from the video.
What about the maintenance that was performed on it prior to that
accident?
accident?
Not saying, but it could well have been a factor.
Remember the "spacer" that was allegedly (?) left out of the French Concorde wheel following maintenance just before the fatal crash ?
Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 24th Jul 2013 at 18:27.
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Bad call, I know ... In the context of the Asiana "whoops", was this a visual approach in manual?
I know, but if there is linkage it needs to be explored and not put in a file called SWAwhatever.
I know, but if there is linkage it needs to be explored and not put in a file called SWAwhatever.
NTSB to investigate
US NTSB safety regulators launched an investigation into the collapse of the front landing gear on a Southwest Airlines plane shortly after it touched down at New York's LaGuardia Airport on Monday evening.
The National Transportation Safety Board said the Boeing 737 skidded 2,175 feet on its nose after the front gear collapsed backwards into the fuselage, damaging avionics and electronics. Nine people out of 150 passengers and crew on board suffered minor injuries, the NTSB said.
The agency had been considering not investigating the incident further, but decided on Tuesday it required further scrutiny.
The National Transportation Safety Board said the Boeing 737 skidded 2,175 feet on its nose after the front gear collapsed backwards into the fuselage, damaging avionics and electronics. Nine people out of 150 passengers and crew on board suffered minor injuries, the NTSB said.
The agency had been considering not investigating the incident further, but decided on Tuesday it required further scrutiny.
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Sorry to drag this back to the evacuation, but WTF.
Very few things in aviation should be rushed and the decision to evacuation is a case in point.
On the 737 checklist items include the engines being switched off, the speedbrakes being stowed and the flaps set to 40 in order to aid the evacuation. Initiating an evacuation before these steps have been taken are likely to cause injury or death.
If passengers initiate an evacuation they are doing it with very little information, very little situational awareness and most likely whilst in shock with adrenalin pumping. Once an evacuation has started it cannot be stopped, people will get injured.
The rear slide angle and the wing at flap 30 with an unusual nose attitude must have injured people during the evac.
Only a few weeks ago in the Asiana incident someone was run over and killed by a fire vehicle in broad daylight further demonstrating that the aircraft can often be the safest place to be.
If there's a fire or smoke in the cabin, I would agree get the hell out of there and if the pilots didn't know what the situation was they'd soon switch the engines off when the doors are flung open, but a few sparks outside as the aircraft slows to a halt, get grip of yourself and let those with all the information make the decision.
Very few things in aviation should be rushed and the decision to evacuation is a case in point.
On the 737 checklist items include the engines being switched off, the speedbrakes being stowed and the flaps set to 40 in order to aid the evacuation. Initiating an evacuation before these steps have been taken are likely to cause injury or death.
If passengers initiate an evacuation they are doing it with very little information, very little situational awareness and most likely whilst in shock with adrenalin pumping. Once an evacuation has started it cannot be stopped, people will get injured.
The rear slide angle and the wing at flap 30 with an unusual nose attitude must have injured people during the evac.
Only a few weeks ago in the Asiana incident someone was run over and killed by a fire vehicle in broad daylight further demonstrating that the aircraft can often be the safest place to be.
If there's a fire or smoke in the cabin, I would agree get the hell out of there and if the pilots didn't know what the situation was they'd soon switch the engines off when the doors are flung open, but a few sparks outside as the aircraft slows to a halt, get grip of yourself and let those with all the information make the decision.
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If you just have to get out, and you just can't stand it, in the absence of smoke, fire, or crew instructions, count to 20. One one thousand, two one thousand, etc., then open the door and exit. Maybe this will give the crew enough time to finish their checklist?
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FYI....An account from a pilot viewing landing from a nearby cockpit. The flair was high then they pushed the nose over contacting the R/W nose gear first and hard enough that the gear disappeared into the wheel well.
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junebug172
That's waaaaayyy too premature of a conclusion
The gear not only folded but went through the floor of the equipment bay. That would have taken some force. If the wheel had fallen off you would have had a scene not unlike the Jet Blue 90 rotated nose gear landing at LAX, where we saw lots of sparks but the gear stayed attached.
If the gear had dug into the tarmac it would have folded or eventually broken off. It is a comparatively light structure and I doubt it would have had the inertia to be flung up through the floor above.
The only thing that doesn't fit this theory is that the wheel appears to be spinning as it crosses the grass which suggests it was in contact with the ground with weight on it long enough to 'spin up' which seems to preclude an instantaneous failure on contact.
Having said that, at over 100 knots, it needs less than a second's contact with the tarmac to achieve a reasonably high rotational speed. Once the axle shatters, the load is removed from the wheel and it will continue to spin for some time.