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Runway overrun in thessaloniki

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Runway overrun in thessaloniki

Old 29th Jun 2013, 14:26
  #81 (permalink)  
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If I'm not mistaken it only acts at higher flaps settings. To my untrained eye it seems they never got this far.
Depends on the tabulation number:
YF121 - YF460, YK176, YK177, YK661 - YR401
When the flaps are set at 40, the TE flaps:
• retract to 30 if airspeed exceeds 163 knots
• re–extend when airspeed is reduced below 158 knots.
When the flaps are set at 30, the TE flaps:
• retract to 25 if the airspeed exceeds 176 knots
• re–extend when airspeed is reduced below 171 knots.
When the flaps are set at 25, the TE flaps:
• retract to 15 if the airspeed exceeds 191 knots
• re–extend when airspeed is reduced below 186 knots.
When the flaps are set at 15, the TE flaps:
• retract to 10 if the airspeed exceeds 201 knots
• re–extend when airspeed is reduced below 196 knots.
When the flaps are set at 10, the TE flaps:
• retract to 5 if the airspeed exceeds 211 knots
• re–extend when airspeed is reduced below 206 knots.
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 03:01
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tony montana
737fctm state:. The PAPI may be safely used with respect to threshold height, but may result in landing further down the runway
We need to keep this in perspective. The aim point difference from 50ft eye height (3°) to 70ft eye height is only 116m (289m vs 405m). I very much doubt if you would ever find a PAPI with a eye height of more than 50ft on a runway less than 2000m long; "Landing further down the runway" then, while technically true, is not going to mean you land with less than the distance required.

Originally Posted by tony montana
if you go all the way down 2 whites 2 reds, you will land beyond aiming point most of the time. So the point you are targeting 120nm away, the point to where is ending your descent profile may be missed and all your landing calculations a bit useless.
I may be misreading this, but a 120m difference in your aiming point will have no practical effect on your descent planning. If you were implying planing for exit taxiways, your aerodrome chart will/should have the eye heights for each runway so you will know the aimpoint beforehand.

Originally Posted by A4
PAPI's can be set for different eye heights - a B747 isnt going to see the same as a Citation.
Yes they will. PAPI 2W/2R is a single path to a point on the runway. The eye heights from each cockpit will be exactly the same. The wheel heights won't be, but when crossing the threshold, if published eye height is 50ft, then that's the height of the 747's and Citation's eyes.
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 10:28
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Post PAPI

Annex14: .... to ensure that the lowest height at which a pilot will see a correct approach path indication ... provides the wheel clearance over
the threshold .... for the most demanding amongst aeroplanes regularly using the runway.


However, this incident has nothing to do with PAPI approach path angles, so may I suggest a return to the topic of this thread.
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 12:43
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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No excuse for the outcome but a Frozen flap drive system springs to mind!
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 13:50
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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No. Since in this case the reference speed would reflect the flap configuration and thereby the lift. If crossing the THR on speed, you would not be even able to float those 1.3km.

Last edited by Frosch; 30th Jun 2013 at 13:52.
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Old 30th Jun 2013, 22:38
  #86 (permalink)  

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No excuse for the outcome but a Frozen flap drive system springs to mind!
In which case the correct action is to go around, assess the problem, decide whether it is possible to land or not and act accordingly.

What springs to mind is a rushed approach and appalling airmanship resulting in a runway overrun!
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Old 1st Jul 2013, 10:10
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There are no excuses.
If the approach is not perfect GO AROUND and sort it out.

Simple.
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Old 1st Jul 2013, 20:03
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Eye Height

Capt Bloggs. You are correct, the eye height at threshold is the same for small and heavies but wheel distance to touch down not. The papis give a theoretical touchdown point without taking into account(not possible) the flare. I can tell from experience that to land a barbie jet as with T/P s at 300 m requires the pilot to try and land 150m before the fixed distance markings,I.e start dipping into 3 reds into the flare. Conversely a B747 requires the pilot to try and land at 450 m as stated in "Handling the big Jets". The papis are more suited to medium sized jets B737/A320 and should allow the pilot to aim at 300m and actually touchdown there.
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Old 1st Jul 2013, 20:21
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NOT all papi's are set for the same eyeheight. some are tailored for Widebody jets. this is by the way sometimes mentioned on your approach plates.
Three reds is still ok on medium jets when visual with the threshold and no close in obstacles.
4 reds, you're dead
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Old 2nd Jul 2013, 11:07
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4 greens even deader as you never reach the threshold.
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Old 2nd Jul 2013, 23:25
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Why Professional & Experience Pilots Sometimes Press the Approach

http://flightsafety.org/asw/dec06/as...28-33.pdf?dl=1
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