British & Dutch Plane Spotters sentenced
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Plane spotters (might be) jailed....
3 years for the guys on the charge of spying, others received 1 year on the charge of aiding and abetting espionage. 
OK....now, the 1 year prison sentence has been suspended. The people found guilty of espionage are appealing.
OK....now, the 1 year prison sentence has been suspended. The people found guilty of espionage are appealing.
Last edited by tom775257; 26th Apr 2002 at 14:11.
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Apologies for the now misleading subject of the post. From what I can gather the people accused of aiding and abetting espionage have been allowed to go home, with a 1 year (minus 6 weeks) suspended sentence. The others who have been found guilty of espionage, and sentenced to 3 years in jail have asked to appeal. They will be allowed to return to the U.K. until the time of the appeal. This could change; the information seems a little sketchy at the moment…
Sounds like a facing saving exercise by the Greek authorities. Bloody shame it causes untold grief and suffering to a bunch of innnocent people, with a hobby they don't want to understand.
The Greek authorities should be ashamed of themselves.....
The Greek authorities should be ashamed of themselves.....
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Spotters get 3 years each!!
From the BBC:
Plane-spotters found guilty
The group had been hopeful of being cleared
Eight of the 14 plane-spotters accused of spying at a military airshow in Greece have been found guilty of espionage.
The remaining six of the group of 12 Britons and two Dutchmen have been found guilty of aiding and abetting.
Those found guilty of espionage, which include the two Dutchmen, were each sentenced to three years.
It is understood they will be able to go home while they appeal against their sentence.
Those found guilty of the lesser charge were given sentences of one year each suspended for three years.
One of those found guilty of espionage, Paul Coppin said after the verdict: "I wasn't expecting this at all.
"The press have been here to see the evidence in the court and can see the case is ludicrous."
A clearly distraught Lesley Coppin, pacing up and down outside the court, said: "We had guarantees from the lawyers that we wouldn't spend another night in prison. That look unlikely now.
"There's a possibility they might suspend my sentence, but they may not suspend the sentence of my husband Paul."
Mr Coppin's mother, speaking from Norfolk, told the BBC she found the verdict "unbelievable."
Jean Butt said from her home in Norfolk: "My son has three young boys at home."
The three Greek judges delivered their verdict on Friday afternoon, following three days of evidence.
The group had denied the espionage charges, which carry a maximum penalty of five years in jail or a hefty fine.
They were arrested at an airshow in Kalamata, southern Greece, last November, and charged with taking pictures in a military zone.
Invitation
The plane-spotters insisted they were at the show on the invitation of the Greek authorities and that any information collected was already freely available.
But Greek prosecutors told the court in Kalamata they knew what they were doing was illegal and could compromise the country's national security.
They spent five weeks in prison before being released on 14 Dec after posting bail of £9,000 each.
Originally they faced a felony charge of spying, which carries a 20-year sentence, but this was later downgraded to misdemeanour charges.
Those found guilty of espionage are:
Paul Coppin, 45, of Mildenhall, Suffolk
Peter Norris, 52, of Uxbridge, west London
Antoni Adamiak, 37, of London
Andrew Jenkins, 32, from York
Graham Arnold, 38, from Ottershaw, Surrey
Gary Fagan, 30, from Kegworth, Leicestershire
Patrick Dirksen, 27, from Eindhoven, Netherlands
Frank Mink, 28, from Den Helder, Netherlands
Those found guilty of aiding and abetting are:
Lesley Coppin, 51, Mildenhall, Suffolk
Michael Bussell, 47, of Swanland, near Hull
Michael Keane, 57, of Dartford, Kent
Steven Rush, 38, from Caterham, Surrey
Christopher Wilson, 46, from Gatwick, West Sussex
Wayne Groves, 38, from Tamworth, Staffordshire
Plane-spotters found guilty
The group had been hopeful of being cleared
Eight of the 14 plane-spotters accused of spying at a military airshow in Greece have been found guilty of espionage.
The remaining six of the group of 12 Britons and two Dutchmen have been found guilty of aiding and abetting.
Those found guilty of espionage, which include the two Dutchmen, were each sentenced to three years.
It is understood they will be able to go home while they appeal against their sentence.
Those found guilty of the lesser charge were given sentences of one year each suspended for three years.
One of those found guilty of espionage, Paul Coppin said after the verdict: "I wasn't expecting this at all.
"The press have been here to see the evidence in the court and can see the case is ludicrous."
A clearly distraught Lesley Coppin, pacing up and down outside the court, said: "We had guarantees from the lawyers that we wouldn't spend another night in prison. That look unlikely now.
"There's a possibility they might suspend my sentence, but they may not suspend the sentence of my husband Paul."
Mr Coppin's mother, speaking from Norfolk, told the BBC she found the verdict "unbelievable."
Jean Butt said from her home in Norfolk: "My son has three young boys at home."
The three Greek judges delivered their verdict on Friday afternoon, following three days of evidence.
The group had denied the espionage charges, which carry a maximum penalty of five years in jail or a hefty fine.
They were arrested at an airshow in Kalamata, southern Greece, last November, and charged with taking pictures in a military zone.
Invitation
The plane-spotters insisted they were at the show on the invitation of the Greek authorities and that any information collected was already freely available.
But Greek prosecutors told the court in Kalamata they knew what they were doing was illegal and could compromise the country's national security.
They spent five weeks in prison before being released on 14 Dec after posting bail of £9,000 each.
Originally they faced a felony charge of spying, which carries a 20-year sentence, but this was later downgraded to misdemeanour charges.
Those found guilty of espionage are:
Paul Coppin, 45, of Mildenhall, Suffolk
Peter Norris, 52, of Uxbridge, west London
Antoni Adamiak, 37, of London
Andrew Jenkins, 32, from York
Graham Arnold, 38, from Ottershaw, Surrey
Gary Fagan, 30, from Kegworth, Leicestershire
Patrick Dirksen, 27, from Eindhoven, Netherlands
Frank Mink, 28, from Den Helder, Netherlands
Those found guilty of aiding and abetting are:
Lesley Coppin, 51, Mildenhall, Suffolk
Michael Bussell, 47, of Swanland, near Hull
Michael Keane, 57, of Dartford, Kent
Steven Rush, 38, from Caterham, Surrey
Christopher Wilson, 46, from Gatwick, West Sussex
Wayne Groves, 38, from Tamworth, Staffordshire
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However minor, there crimes apear to us here, the truth is that they still broke the law of the land of where they were! No matter how strange the law, religion or customs can be of a foreign culture, you should always respect and obey them.
If not, you should be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions, of which the 14 spotters clearly were not. I understand that that although much information is freely available over the internet, the taking of photo's (especially in the areas concerned) is strictly phrohibited, as it is indeed at many airports around the world including the UK. Didn't thay also have documentation warning that there actions were ilegal?
I hope that they can put togeather a good apeal case, (i understand all are alowed to return to UK pending an appeal), but hopefully can also reflect upon there actions.
:o :o :o
If not, you should be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions, of which the 14 spotters clearly were not. I understand that that although much information is freely available over the internet, the taking of photo's (especially in the areas concerned) is strictly phrohibited, as it is indeed at many airports around the world including the UK. Didn't thay also have documentation warning that there actions were ilegal?
I hope that they can put togeather a good apeal case, (i understand all are alowed to return to UK pending an appeal), but hopefully can also reflect upon there actions.
:o :o :o
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Well said,Spud. thats that sorted out.
I'm amazed the spotters went back for the trial in the first place.
If i was one of them i would not travel to greece again under any circumstances. including future legal proceedings.
A lucky escape, being allowed to go home pending an appeal. Stay there!
I'm amazed the spotters went back for the trial in the first place.
If i was one of them i would not travel to greece again under any circumstances. including future legal proceedings.
A lucky escape, being allowed to go home pending an appeal. Stay there!
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How many times...................they did not take photographs on the base! That's already been accepted.
Mishandled - good name! Morons? Unless you know them all, how can you make that kind of allegation? You only bring your argument down to the gutter making such statements.
Try and make a reasoned point and people might take you seriously.
Mishandled - good name! Morons? Unless you know them all, how can you make that kind of allegation? You only bring your argument down to the gutter making such statements.
Try and make a reasoned point and people might take you seriously.
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What an absolute bloody disgrace!!There are spotting societies in Athens and Greece-how can these magistrates say these people are spies??The government must intervene in this mess-the greek air force is full of clapped out 3rd hand aircraft-who is interested anyway??Can Stelios help??The hobby is harmless so why all the fuss-send in the army and sort them out -lets have a boycott on holidays in Greece
Boeingboy1 did you know they were actually invited to these Greek airbases by the Greek Airforce as part of a series of Open days. They had permission for these visits, doesn't exactly reflect very well on their hosts does it 
They are completely innocent, for christs sake, Greece and the UK are part of NATO, and the European Union.
The prosecution offerred no, repeat no evidence, and gave no information on behalf of whom these people were "Spying" for.
It took my less than 5 minutes surfing to turn up stacks of info. on the net regarding the Greek Airforce. most of the Greek Airfields that i fly to in the summer are joint civil/military. I wonder of we will include a PA to Pax, sorry no writing or piccie taking, as you might be a spy
They are completely innocent, for christs sake, Greece and the UK are part of NATO, and the European Union.
The prosecution offerred no, repeat no evidence, and gave no information on behalf of whom these people were "Spying" for.
It took my less than 5 minutes surfing to turn up stacks of info. on the net regarding the Greek Airforce. most of the Greek Airfields that i fly to in the summer are joint civil/military. I wonder of we will include a PA to Pax, sorry no writing or piccie taking, as you might be a spy
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I hope and suspect it will all end well.
The sentences are unlikely to be served, and are probably intended as a warning to others not to ignore notices around military bases. Three years is quite a warning, and will certainly hit the world's headlines!
During the trial, Squadron Leader Nektarios Samaras of the Greek Air Force said he could not understand the group's claim they were writing down aircraft numbers as part of their hobby. He'd never heard of such a hobby.
I must say I have some sympathy for the defence lawyer who had to try to explain this rather British phenomenon to a Greek Court.
EGGW
The allegation was that they went beyond the permitted areas. They originally faced felony charges of spying, which carries a 20-year sentence, but this was later downgraded to misdemeanour charges. Do we know enough about the facts of the case to judge whether they were guilty of the misdemeanours alleged?
Espionage sounds very serious, but bear in mind you can be convicted of technical offences under the Prevention of Terrorism Act in the UK without being a terrorist.
These are only ideas put into the discussion - I know nothing about the case except what I've seen in the media.
The sentences are unlikely to be served, and are probably intended as a warning to others not to ignore notices around military bases. Three years is quite a warning, and will certainly hit the world's headlines!
During the trial, Squadron Leader Nektarios Samaras of the Greek Air Force said he could not understand the group's claim they were writing down aircraft numbers as part of their hobby. He'd never heard of such a hobby.
I must say I have some sympathy for the defence lawyer who had to try to explain this rather British phenomenon to a Greek Court.
EGGW
The allegation was that they went beyond the permitted areas. They originally faced felony charges of spying, which carries a 20-year sentence, but this was later downgraded to misdemeanour charges. Do we know enough about the facts of the case to judge whether they were guilty of the misdemeanours alleged?
Espionage sounds very serious, but bear in mind you can be convicted of technical offences under the Prevention of Terrorism Act in the UK without being a terrorist.
These are only ideas put into the discussion - I know nothing about the case except what I've seen in the media.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 26th Apr 2002 at 15:52.
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Plane Spotters
Again the country which originated the concept of democracy has seen an appalling miscarriage of justice. Old stagers like me remember the farcical trial and imprisonment of the Swiss pilots back in the '70s.
I agree that some sort of protest is needed, and a show of support from IFALPA would help.
I agree that some sort of protest is needed, and a show of support from IFALPA would help.
Last edited by yotter; 26th Apr 2002 at 16:02.
Controversial, moi?
EGGW
There are in fact 36 countries listed in my company information where photography is not permitted from the air. Including parts of the US and also within 25NM of Goose Bay as well as some other areas of Canada.
Needless to say Greece is included in that list.
Better start making those PAs.
There are in fact 36 countries listed in my company information where photography is not permitted from the air. Including parts of the US and also within 25NM of Goose Bay as well as some other areas of Canada.
Needless to say Greece is included in that list.
Better start making those PAs.
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EGGW,
They may have been invited to visit the airbase open day, but then seemingly abused the trust of there hosts! I agree that this seems to be a total over reaction and face saving exercise on behalf of the greek authorities, but there actions must have caused some serious concerns in the first place. I will never understand the mind of a spotter, but it does seem strange why people want to write down the reg numbers, movement times, pilots name etc of flights - and I guess to the greek authorities on the day it must have too! I know a few spotters and they all take risks with their hobby, including the taking of ilicit photographs and "accidiently" wondering away from the crowds inorder to obtain that perfect photo shot.
as i said earlier, many airports around the world, including the UK already do phrohibit photography airside, including your dear old name sake!
They may have been invited to visit the airbase open day, but then seemingly abused the trust of there hosts! I agree that this seems to be a total over reaction and face saving exercise on behalf of the greek authorities, but there actions must have caused some serious concerns in the first place. I will never understand the mind of a spotter, but it does seem strange why people want to write down the reg numbers, movement times, pilots name etc of flights - and I guess to the greek authorities on the day it must have too! I know a few spotters and they all take risks with their hobby, including the taking of ilicit photographs and "accidiently" wondering away from the crowds inorder to obtain that perfect photo shot.
I wonder of we will include a PA to Pax, sorry no writing or piccie taking, as you might be a spy
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It's no wonder that poor old Danny has to keep upgrading the server when people start multiple threads on the same subject.
Reading down just a few posts you will see that this topic is already "under way".
Reading down just a few posts you will see that this topic is already "under way".
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As a UK expat living and working in Philadelphia I believe that these people deserve whatever the courts hand out.
Whether or not I believe in the laws here in the US I have to obey them. If not I can expect to be treated like any other lawbreaker here in the US. If I don't like the laws in the US I have only one choice - to leave.
These people went to Greece and broke their laws, plain and simple, now they have to pay the consequences no matter whatever they think of it.
Whether or not I believe in the laws here in the US I have to obey them. If not I can expect to be treated like any other lawbreaker here in the US. If I don't like the laws in the US I have only one choice - to leave.
These people went to Greece and broke their laws, plain and simple, now they have to pay the consequences no matter whatever they think of it.