British & Dutch Plane Spotters sentenced
Delay? What delay?
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Eric the red. I've worked at airports ever since I left university (over 10 years ago), and wjhilst I still think that these people were stupid I dont have anything against spotters in general, weird though I think their hobby might be. These particular individuals though, went to a foreign country, broke the laws that they knew about and are now reaping the rewards. If they had obtained permission from the appropriate authorities, or just stayed within the bounds of the law, then there would have been no problem. They didnt, they must pay the penalty. I have sympathy for them on a human level, but as I said in my first post on the subject, they did the crime now they must do the time.
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statement part 1
this is taken from the "horses mouth"...... maybe if you take the time to read this you can understand the wider issues, instead of typical knee-jerk reaction (like the popular press)
this has been broken into 2 parts as it's tooo large.....
"quote....
In this note I am responding on behalf of the "Kalamata 14" to a number of issues that have been raised:-
1. E-MAILS:
I am sympathetic to the desire that a number of people have expressed to bring to the attention of the Greeks their displeasure at Friday's decision and have seen various suggestions as to e-mail addresses (Greek AF, Greek
Prime Minister, Greek Ambassador etc) which could be used.
Whilst I would not wish to prevent anyone who wishes to from expressing their views in this way, I am doubtful as to their effectiveness and there is great potential for them to be counter-productive. I would ask that anyone who feels that they must communicate via e-mail to Greek officialdom to please be both
polite and constructive.
2. BOYCOTTS:
The last thing any of us would want to see is people boycotting Greek restaurants in the UK or taking any form of 'direct action' to vent their feelings. There are plenty of things wrong with the world without us adding to them. Our argument is with the Greek 'system' not with individuals or with the Greek people in general. On the other hand I fully support a boycott of Greek holidays as I sincerely believe that by visiting Greece, foreigners are placing themselves at risk. There are many wonderful holiday
destinations in this world so removing Greece from your list of options should not cause anyone any hardship and falling tourist revenues may eventually cause the Greek government to re-evaluate their treatment of visitors.
During our time in prison and from further information provided to
us on our return, we have learnt of many people who have had unfortunate experiences of the Greek legal system. It is not simply the case that "planespotters" should expect problems in Greece, rather that when "things" happen to any foreign visitor to Greece, there is enormous potential for them to go wrong in a big way. The Greeks themselves are well aware that to witness a crime in Greece is a dangerous thing. This is why many months
after the assassination of the British Military Attache in a major Athens street during the rush hour, no witnesses have as yet come forward.
3. GREEK VISITORS TO UK AIR SHOWS
I disagree with those who advocate asking airshow organisers to revoke invitations to Greek AF aircraft to UK airshows. Their aircraft are rare enough over here at the best of times and their presence enriches any airshow. If we can't go and see them over there, please lets have them over here! More importantly, if our interest is ever to be understood in Greece then an education process needs to take place. One way this can be furthered is by having Greek aircrew at UK airshows to see what goes on in a 'normal' country.
We were arrested at a small town provincial trainer base where probably few, if any, of the personnel had ventured out of Greece. My own belief is that had the same situation arisen at a Greek fighter base, with english speaking aircrew to hand who had perhaps been involved in a TLP or similar event which might have given them experience of landing to the sight of vast numbers of camera lenses and telescopes being pointed at them, then the incident would have been settled amicably at the beginning. What we want is more Greek AF visitors to spread the word back home that interest in military aviation is not something which inherently consitutes 'suspicious behaviour'.
If our arresting officer had brought a Kalamata based Buckeye to last year's RIAT and had seen what people do at airshows in the rest of Europe, the arrest would probably never have happened.
4. PROPAGANDA
Because there is still misunderstanding, let us be clear once more. At NO point during the trip did ANY member of the group take ANY pictures at ANY Greek military installation. Pictures were taken at 4 locations:
1) Athens War Museum, 2) the Bell 212 helicopter parked on the general aviation ramp at the old Athens civil airport (Hellenikon), 3) the museum collection at the old port in Mesolongi, 4) the scrapyard in Vonitsa village containing the wrecks of scrapped F-84F Thunderstreaks broken up in 1986.
Greek propaganda continually spins the story that "they were warned three times and still continued". The facts are that as we entered 3 airshows we were informed that there was a ban on photography, and as a result we "continued" not to take any. The insinuation that a film was 'destroyed' (by its owner)
is a nonsense as all film was removed from cameras by the police whilst we were detained elsewhere under armed guard.
5. "THEY KNEW THAT TAKING NOTES WAS ILLEGAL"
The only evidence produced in court to specifically state that note-taking was illegal was an extract from a non-Greek web site. The group were apprehended at Tanagra on the first day and after a thorough checking out by the police, AF and security service, were released. The investigating officers checked out the full range of paraphernalia, cameras, film, telescopes, notebooks (jncluding Tanagra), reference books etc. Upon release we were told "sorry to have delayed you", "you have done nothing wrong", "do not take any photographs at military installations" and "enjoy the rest of your holiday". If it was legal to take notes at Tanagra on Monday, why was it illegal to take notes at Kalamata on Thursday?
One of the eye-openers for me during our trial was to learn that the Articles of the Greek penal code under which we were charged are themselves part of a "secret document" and do not form part of the law as available for perusal by the public. These Articles are not published in the "Government Gazette" and therefore do not form part of Greek law as publicised to the
Greek public. To obtain a copy of the Articles which formed the basis of the charge, our lawyer had to effectively 'sign the official secrets act'. He publicly told the court that in reading the contents to the court (on live TV) he was committing a far greater offence than any of the accused. The fact is that there is no legislation which prohibits taking notes of the serial numbers of Greek military aircraft which is precisely why the charge brought against the group was the nebulous one of 'espionage'. The
prosecution case was based not upon evidence of wrongdoing (the evidence showed that members of the group had looked at aeroplanes through binoculars, walked around an airshow static park and written down numbers) but rather that possession of cameras, telescopes, reference books and notebooks whilst travelling in a group of 14 in two minibuses with prior contact with the AF HQ was conclusive proof that the individuals involved
could not possibly be spotters (never heard of such a thing!) but must be spies.
On the subject of notes, the Public Prosecutor made great play over the presence of signs at Kalamata prohibiting photography and argued that by implication the ban on photography implied a ban on note taking etc. I found it significant that the media had found it necessary to apply to the court for permission to bring cameras into the court room, but strangely none of them had felt a similar need to ask permission to take notes (this despite the fact that dozens of people were taking notes in the court room).
The Prosecutor stated that whilst Touchdown had permission to visit the open days, they had no permission to take notes. In my experience of 30 years of "planespotting" during overseas base visits, I can recall many instances where I have needed a permit for photography, but not a single instance where I have been given a permit allowing note taking. In most countries, were a misunderstanding to arise over a note-taking issue, the remedy would be to confiscate the offending notebook, not to threaten the offender with a 20 year sentence for espionage (subsequently commuted to 3 years following imprisonment and trial). Bear in mind that the 1 year suspended sentences are for those with no evidence against them (ie no notebook). The difference between a 1 year suspended sentence and a 3 year custodial sentence is that some guys copied down notes in the hotel, or took down the list at the time..
Bear in mind also that a 1 year suspended sentence also applies to a grandmother non-spotter who was sitting in a van doing a crossword.
cont.....
this has been broken into 2 parts as it's tooo large.....
"quote....
In this note I am responding on behalf of the "Kalamata 14" to a number of issues that have been raised:-
1. E-MAILS:
I am sympathetic to the desire that a number of people have expressed to bring to the attention of the Greeks their displeasure at Friday's decision and have seen various suggestions as to e-mail addresses (Greek AF, Greek
Prime Minister, Greek Ambassador etc) which could be used.
Whilst I would not wish to prevent anyone who wishes to from expressing their views in this way, I am doubtful as to their effectiveness and there is great potential for them to be counter-productive. I would ask that anyone who feels that they must communicate via e-mail to Greek officialdom to please be both
polite and constructive.
2. BOYCOTTS:
The last thing any of us would want to see is people boycotting Greek restaurants in the UK or taking any form of 'direct action' to vent their feelings. There are plenty of things wrong with the world without us adding to them. Our argument is with the Greek 'system' not with individuals or with the Greek people in general. On the other hand I fully support a boycott of Greek holidays as I sincerely believe that by visiting Greece, foreigners are placing themselves at risk. There are many wonderful holiday
destinations in this world so removing Greece from your list of options should not cause anyone any hardship and falling tourist revenues may eventually cause the Greek government to re-evaluate their treatment of visitors.
During our time in prison and from further information provided to
us on our return, we have learnt of many people who have had unfortunate experiences of the Greek legal system. It is not simply the case that "planespotters" should expect problems in Greece, rather that when "things" happen to any foreign visitor to Greece, there is enormous potential for them to go wrong in a big way. The Greeks themselves are well aware that to witness a crime in Greece is a dangerous thing. This is why many months
after the assassination of the British Military Attache in a major Athens street during the rush hour, no witnesses have as yet come forward.
3. GREEK VISITORS TO UK AIR SHOWS
I disagree with those who advocate asking airshow organisers to revoke invitations to Greek AF aircraft to UK airshows. Their aircraft are rare enough over here at the best of times and their presence enriches any airshow. If we can't go and see them over there, please lets have them over here! More importantly, if our interest is ever to be understood in Greece then an education process needs to take place. One way this can be furthered is by having Greek aircrew at UK airshows to see what goes on in a 'normal' country.
We were arrested at a small town provincial trainer base where probably few, if any, of the personnel had ventured out of Greece. My own belief is that had the same situation arisen at a Greek fighter base, with english speaking aircrew to hand who had perhaps been involved in a TLP or similar event which might have given them experience of landing to the sight of vast numbers of camera lenses and telescopes being pointed at them, then the incident would have been settled amicably at the beginning. What we want is more Greek AF visitors to spread the word back home that interest in military aviation is not something which inherently consitutes 'suspicious behaviour'.
If our arresting officer had brought a Kalamata based Buckeye to last year's RIAT and had seen what people do at airshows in the rest of Europe, the arrest would probably never have happened.
4. PROPAGANDA
Because there is still misunderstanding, let us be clear once more. At NO point during the trip did ANY member of the group take ANY pictures at ANY Greek military installation. Pictures were taken at 4 locations:
1) Athens War Museum, 2) the Bell 212 helicopter parked on the general aviation ramp at the old Athens civil airport (Hellenikon), 3) the museum collection at the old port in Mesolongi, 4) the scrapyard in Vonitsa village containing the wrecks of scrapped F-84F Thunderstreaks broken up in 1986.
Greek propaganda continually spins the story that "they were warned three times and still continued". The facts are that as we entered 3 airshows we were informed that there was a ban on photography, and as a result we "continued" not to take any. The insinuation that a film was 'destroyed' (by its owner)
is a nonsense as all film was removed from cameras by the police whilst we were detained elsewhere under armed guard.
5. "THEY KNEW THAT TAKING NOTES WAS ILLEGAL"
The only evidence produced in court to specifically state that note-taking was illegal was an extract from a non-Greek web site. The group were apprehended at Tanagra on the first day and after a thorough checking out by the police, AF and security service, were released. The investigating officers checked out the full range of paraphernalia, cameras, film, telescopes, notebooks (jncluding Tanagra), reference books etc. Upon release we were told "sorry to have delayed you", "you have done nothing wrong", "do not take any photographs at military installations" and "enjoy the rest of your holiday". If it was legal to take notes at Tanagra on Monday, why was it illegal to take notes at Kalamata on Thursday?
One of the eye-openers for me during our trial was to learn that the Articles of the Greek penal code under which we were charged are themselves part of a "secret document" and do not form part of the law as available for perusal by the public. These Articles are not published in the "Government Gazette" and therefore do not form part of Greek law as publicised to the
Greek public. To obtain a copy of the Articles which formed the basis of the charge, our lawyer had to effectively 'sign the official secrets act'. He publicly told the court that in reading the contents to the court (on live TV) he was committing a far greater offence than any of the accused. The fact is that there is no legislation which prohibits taking notes of the serial numbers of Greek military aircraft which is precisely why the charge brought against the group was the nebulous one of 'espionage'. The
prosecution case was based not upon evidence of wrongdoing (the evidence showed that members of the group had looked at aeroplanes through binoculars, walked around an airshow static park and written down numbers) but rather that possession of cameras, telescopes, reference books and notebooks whilst travelling in a group of 14 in two minibuses with prior contact with the AF HQ was conclusive proof that the individuals involved
could not possibly be spotters (never heard of such a thing!) but must be spies.
On the subject of notes, the Public Prosecutor made great play over the presence of signs at Kalamata prohibiting photography and argued that by implication the ban on photography implied a ban on note taking etc. I found it significant that the media had found it necessary to apply to the court for permission to bring cameras into the court room, but strangely none of them had felt a similar need to ask permission to take notes (this despite the fact that dozens of people were taking notes in the court room).
The Prosecutor stated that whilst Touchdown had permission to visit the open days, they had no permission to take notes. In my experience of 30 years of "planespotting" during overseas base visits, I can recall many instances where I have needed a permit for photography, but not a single instance where I have been given a permit allowing note taking. In most countries, were a misunderstanding to arise over a note-taking issue, the remedy would be to confiscate the offending notebook, not to threaten the offender with a 20 year sentence for espionage (subsequently commuted to 3 years following imprisonment and trial). Bear in mind that the 1 year suspended sentences are for those with no evidence against them (ie no notebook). The difference between a 1 year suspended sentence and a 3 year custodial sentence is that some guys copied down notes in the hotel, or took down the list at the time..
Bear in mind also that a 1 year suspended sentence also applies to a grandmother non-spotter who was sitting in a van doing a crossword.
cont.....
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statement part 2
cont...
6. THE SENTENCES
Following the total confusion which ensued due to the shabby way in which the verdict was delivered, I have subsequently determined that the implications of the two sentences are as follows:-
1 year suspended: Applies to those found guilty of "aiding & abetting" espionage. I am lucky enough to fall into this group. This sentence is suspended for three years which means that if we do not commit an offence in Greece during this period then the 1 year jail sentence does not come into play. That means I now have a criminal record which causes many impediments
to normal life, for instance I would have difficulty in entering the USA. We can also pay a daily rate to in effect 'buy out' the sentence. Strangely, paying this fee would in effect mean that the conviction had 'never happened'. This confirms my view that the Greek legal system is concerned more with finance than with justice. The bail money for the 1 year guys should be refunded shortly (less the additional £4000 legal bill which was sprung upon us on Friday, for those who opted to take this money out of the £9000 bail). Appeals have been lodged against the 1 year suspended sentences.
3 year sentence: The only reason the 3 year guys are now back in the UK is because they have lodged an immediate appeal. They are now back on bail of £9000 and will not see this money until the appeal comes to fruition (years?). Should the appeal go against them, there is a second tier of appeal but they would go to prison pending the second appeal hearing. Whilst imprisoned in Nafplio last year we met prisoners who had multi year sentences who had an appeal hearing scheduled for a year after their release.
There are many issues raised by this case, a number of which have nothing to do with "planespotters" but everything to do with the wider issues of Greece, its legal system and its place within the EEC. Last weeks trial ran for many hours and I do not have the time or stamina to go through all the points raised, so the above just skims the surface. We have not heard the last of this by a long chalk. As with my note before Christmas I do not
intend to follow up this note with further messages, nor will I reply to any responses on the subject - I have my own life to lead. I would urge you continue to support the "planespotters" case in whatever way you can and if you know anyone planning to travel to Greece, if you care for them, try to dissuade them.
Regards,
Mike (Convicted of espionage, Kalamata, Greece, 26.4.02)
(No.11 in December, No.4 in April)
...unquote"
6. THE SENTENCES
Following the total confusion which ensued due to the shabby way in which the verdict was delivered, I have subsequently determined that the implications of the two sentences are as follows:-
1 year suspended: Applies to those found guilty of "aiding & abetting" espionage. I am lucky enough to fall into this group. This sentence is suspended for three years which means that if we do not commit an offence in Greece during this period then the 1 year jail sentence does not come into play. That means I now have a criminal record which causes many impediments
to normal life, for instance I would have difficulty in entering the USA. We can also pay a daily rate to in effect 'buy out' the sentence. Strangely, paying this fee would in effect mean that the conviction had 'never happened'. This confirms my view that the Greek legal system is concerned more with finance than with justice. The bail money for the 1 year guys should be refunded shortly (less the additional £4000 legal bill which was sprung upon us on Friday, for those who opted to take this money out of the £9000 bail). Appeals have been lodged against the 1 year suspended sentences.
3 year sentence: The only reason the 3 year guys are now back in the UK is because they have lodged an immediate appeal. They are now back on bail of £9000 and will not see this money until the appeal comes to fruition (years?). Should the appeal go against them, there is a second tier of appeal but they would go to prison pending the second appeal hearing. Whilst imprisoned in Nafplio last year we met prisoners who had multi year sentences who had an appeal hearing scheduled for a year after their release.
There are many issues raised by this case, a number of which have nothing to do with "planespotters" but everything to do with the wider issues of Greece, its legal system and its place within the EEC. Last weeks trial ran for many hours and I do not have the time or stamina to go through all the points raised, so the above just skims the surface. We have not heard the last of this by a long chalk. As with my note before Christmas I do not
intend to follow up this note with further messages, nor will I reply to any responses on the subject - I have my own life to lead. I would urge you continue to support the "planespotters" case in whatever way you can and if you know anyone planning to travel to Greece, if you care for them, try to dissuade them.
Regards,
Mike (Convicted of espionage, Kalamata, Greece, 26.4.02)
(No.11 in December, No.4 in April)
...unquote"
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Can it be that "El Presidente" Bluurr having signed at "treaty" to allow ALL of or EU "friends" to come here and arrest anyone , that they think has broken a law in their country. Is that why he's doing nowt?
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
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Mr. Tiger...............do not leave your house, the Greek Military Police are on their way. Do not attempt to fill your refrigerator with Greek yogurt and ouzo in an attempt to appease the authorities, as they can see through such blatant propaganda.
You are quite obviously a spy on the payroll of the Turkish military, and will be dealt with accordingly!
If you need legal assistance, do not attempt to contact these people, as they are spies too.
http://www.f-t-a.freeserve.co.uk/
Love from Stavros and the team!
You are quite obviously a spy on the payroll of the Turkish military, and will be dealt with accordingly!
If you need legal assistance, do not attempt to contact these people, as they are spies too.
http://www.f-t-a.freeserve.co.uk/
Love from Stavros and the team!
