SAS diversion accompanied by Typhoon
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<<What is more common, HD, is a 'missed' handover so there is no 'previous' to return to. Hence the need for a chart.>>
But where they were, they must have been talking to someone so why not go back to previous?
But where they were, they must have been talking to someone so why not go back to previous?
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In Ryanair world all our flight plans now have all FIR Boundary points underlined on the plog and elapsed time to each one.
Also SOP is to put said Boundary point in the fix page in the FMC so it has a green ring around it on ND.
Also if we get to said boundary and no said frequency change then we challenge ATC.
Ryanair worked out a while ago flying in formation with fast jets and picture in the Daily Mail is not good PR.
Also SOP is to put said Boundary point in the fix page in the FMC so it has a green ring around it on ND.
Also if we get to said boundary and no said frequency change then we challenge ATC.
Ryanair worked out a while ago flying in formation with fast jets and picture in the Daily Mail is not good PR.
Last edited by Say Mach Number; 21st Apr 2013 at 14:43.
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Usual knockers
As soon as any problem appears someone has a go at R air.
R have a lot of planes/routes/people, they don't have many incidents in proportion to their size. They must be doing something right
I don't work for them, never have, worked at the same field and don't like their methods. Flew with them once because the company booked it, never again, rather walk but the fact is they have an excellent safety record considering their size.
They don't fit the model some people try to circulate so get used to it.
R have a lot of planes/routes/people, they don't have many incidents in proportion to their size. They must be doing something right
I don't work for them, never have, worked at the same field and don't like their methods. Flew with them once because the company booked it, never again, rather walk but the fact is they have an excellent safety record considering their size.
They don't fit the model some people try to circulate so get used to it.
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There must be more to the story.
How long was the comm lost for? Seems like they were surprised. Refusing them to fly to final destination seems quite strange and an overeaction.
The North Sea has quite large sectors compared to flying through Maarstrict, so not anticipating a frequency change every 5-10 min could have made them too relaxed.
121.5 seems to have become flooded with unnecessary calls like ME carriers calling eachother, PAN PANs every where in the UK, when someone lost their orientation or practicing is as someone mentioned. (Get a flight info frequency for that) It often happens that you have to turn down the volume or you loose parts of a message due to unnecessary chatter.
I am not trying to make an excuse for the crew, as they should have been listening to 121.5, but there are many factors in this and maybe ATC forgot to hand them over. Has happend to me before, but 121.5 saved them from giving us an escort.
How long was the comm lost for? Seems like they were surprised. Refusing them to fly to final destination seems quite strange and an overeaction.
The North Sea has quite large sectors compared to flying through Maarstrict, so not anticipating a frequency change every 5-10 min could have made them too relaxed.
121.5 seems to have become flooded with unnecessary calls like ME carriers calling eachother, PAN PANs every where in the UK, when someone lost their orientation or practicing is as someone mentioned. (Get a flight info frequency for that) It often happens that you have to turn down the volume or you loose parts of a message due to unnecessary chatter.
I am not trying to make an excuse for the crew, as they should have been listening to 121.5, but there are many factors in this and maybe ATC forgot to hand them over. Has happend to me before, but 121.5 saved them from giving us an escort.
Last edited by SAS-A321; 22nd Apr 2013 at 16:43.
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I think the UK AIP is very unhelpful regarding comms for enroute ATC.
Take a look at the French and German AIP enroute pages 3.7 and they list the frequency for each ATC sector.
Now look at the UK AIP enroute page 2.1.1 and all they have is a long list of frequencies with no clue as to what they are for.
Take a look at the French and German AIP enroute pages 3.7 and they list the frequency for each ATC sector.
Now look at the UK AIP enroute page 2.1.1 and all they have is a long list of frequencies with no clue as to what they are for.
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BOAC, its a while since I used airline charts on a regular basis but when I did I believe the issue was still there. France showed the sectors but the UK didnt.
I presume the charts take the information from the published AIPs and notams so if the information is not there in the first place its unlikely to be repeated in the charts.
I agree you cant lump the AIPs around but in this day and age didnt think it would be a problem having them available in databases given you can get them via the eurocontrol EAD basic website. I get a lot of my info from there now.
I presume the charts take the information from the published AIPs and notams so if the information is not there in the first place its unlikely to be repeated in the charts.
I agree you cant lump the AIPs around but in this day and age didnt think it would be a problem having them available in databases given you can get them via the eurocontrol EAD basic website. I get a lot of my info from there now.
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Well, if those charts do not have the sector freqs on them, better change to Jepp?At least follow others' examples and mark the FIR boundaries on the PLOG so you know when to expect a change.
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In flydubai (and also in Emirates) we use LIDO charts (= Lufthansa by any other name) and our FlightPlans annotate FIR boundaries (though this latter feature is actually a real pain-in-the-derrière for delivery flights from Seattle, as those intermediate boundary points cause havoc with the circle-tick-cross checks of bearing & distance required of long-range sparse area / oceanic sectors)!... and yes, FIR boundaries plus an 80Nm range ring are commonly entered in the FIX page, as an aide memoir for making the call well in advance to the next FIR.
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Originally Posted by okc
though this latter feature is actually a real pain-in-the-derrière for delivery flights from Seattle, as those intermediate boundary points cause havoc with the circle-tick-cross checks of bearing & distance required of long-range sparse area / oceanic sectors
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SAS-A321
121.5 seems to have become flooded with unnecessary calls like ME carriers calling eachother, PAN PANs every where in the UK, when someone lost their orientation or practicing is as someone mentioned. (Get a flight info frequency for that)
121.5 seems to have become flooded with unnecessary calls like ME carriers calling eachother, PAN PANs every where in the UK, when someone lost their orientation or practicing is as someone mentioned. (Get a flight info frequency for that)
I'm not sure how new you are to flying in the UK SAS A321 but using 121.5 is part of the flying training in the British Isles. Practice pans are just that and 121.5 is the frequency.
It's important that pilots are not scared of using it when they have a problem.
If your Scandinavian cousins had been listening out they could have saved some red faces.
Last edited by Ye Olde Pilot; 28th Apr 2013 at 21:01.