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A321 runway excursion Lyon.

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A321 runway excursion Lyon.

Old 13th Apr 2013, 09:08
  #61 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by A4
has not been white washed of the aircraft
- but they did try to brown wash it off............................and they could have just hidden it in the quarry.

Last edited by BOAC; 13th Apr 2013 at 09:09.
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 16:32
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Report released

Report available....

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2013/sx-s...s130329.en.pdf

Experience levels, fatigue and training/organisation significant. Also see same factors same operator incident report

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2012/sx-v...v120411.en.pdf
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 21:25
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A321 runway excursion Lyon.

The PM called out “Leave it“ several times and applied a succession of harder nose- down inputs (1/2 pitch down) until touchdown. Meanwhile, the PF maintained a hard nose-up input (1/2 pitch up on average). The resulting input was nose up. During this phase, the synthetic voice called out “DUAL INPUT“.



Woops
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Old 5th Sep 2015, 22:15
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The BEA reported that the first officer (26, ATPL, 600 hours total, 314 on type) was pilot flying,

Glad that is no longer possible here in the US.
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 06:00
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How is it possible to have an ATPL with only 600 hours? I thought 1500 was the minimum.
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 08:28
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He didn't. He had the ATPL theory (fATPL) and a CPL.
Seems like the F/O was struggling along the whole time.
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 08:36
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Originally Posted by fox niner
How is it possible to have an ATPL with only 600 hours? I thought 1500 was the minimum.
No, an ATPL is just CPL plus multicrew and CRM.
150 hours is enough for a CPL, many students leave training school with a frozen ATPL at under 200 hours ready to find a job and a type rating.

A type rating unfreezes the ATPL, this is part of the "on the job" training in the RH seat.

The USA has unilaterally imposed a 1500 hour minimum for carrying passengers, this is a controversial subject because it puts a very big roadblock in the normal career progression and is causing pilot shortages in the USA. Basically a daft kneejerk reaction by politicians in response to the Colgan Air crash.

Last edited by The Ancient Geek; 6th Sep 2015 at 08:56.
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 10:08
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EASA ATPL(A) requires a minimum of 1,500 flight time hours including 500 hours in multi-pilot operations.
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 10:59
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Originally Posted by peekay4
EASA ATPL(A) requires a minimum of 1,500 flight time hours including 500 hours in multi-pilot operations.
Indeed, but those hours are built on the job in the right hand seat.
The ATPL is not REQUIRED until you want to move to the LH seat.

Incidentally, there are a few gotchas in building those multipilot hours, for example the DHC6 Twotter is most often flown with 2 pilots but it is certificated for single pilot operation so those hours may not count, depending on the jurisdiction, the phase of the moon and the jobsworth credentials of the guy checking qualifications.

Last edited by The Ancient Geek; 6th Sep 2015 at 11:10.
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Old 16th Sep 2015, 13:46
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What can EASA do with a failing Aviation Authority

I don't know if things at HCAA have improved in the intervening years ... but this report is pretty damming .... what can EASA do if a member state's AA isn't working properly?

quotes from the BEA report:


3.2 Causes of the Accident
the absence of suitable initial oversight which made it impossible for the HCAA to focus on the predictable potential operational weaknesses of Hermes Airlines

4 Safety Recommendations
The HCAA implement an appropriate oversight programme for Hermes Airlines, specifically based on the risks identified during the investigation. [Recommendation FRAN-2015-028]
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Old 16th Sep 2015, 14:05
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Glad that is no longer possible here in the US.
Amen to that. If I put my wife and kids on a jet I don't want the Capt to be distracted by someone learning how to fly. The f/o should be a solid back up, not a ' work in progress' .
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Old 16th Sep 2015, 14:38
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Hermes Airlines officials explained that because of the «low cost» profile of the operator, the recruitment of young inexperienced copilots was also economically more interesting than that of experienced copilots.
Is Hermes Airlines pay to fly?
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Old 16th Sep 2015, 15:57
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Is Hermes Airlines pay to fly?

I always thought that was the role of the pax.
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Old 21st Sep 2015, 14:32
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It SHOULD be the role of the pax, RAT5. Unfortunately, ..no, make that outrageously, many low cost carriers are somehow allowed by supine regulators to have very inexperienced trainee pilots, not employed by the airline, paying to sit in the right hand seat to be trained. It will be interesting to hear if that was the case here.
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Old 21st Sep 2015, 18:40
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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So I'm not too familiar with EASA rules but how is that legal?
15 hrs is achievable. Max FDP 13 hrs + 2 hrs captain's discretion.
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Old 29th Sep 2015, 13:51
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Is Hermes Airlines pay to fly?

The report doesn't state it ... but I've heard that this pilot was indeed paying to fly.
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