CitiExpress Cuts
Last airline to leave Cardiff - please switch off the lights........??
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Very sad for all involved. I can not believe there is not a future for BA at the Welsh capitol. A new strategy to stimulate customers is all it takes. People will still pay to fly from their local airport......I think we may see Ezy etc..showing BA how it should be done once again.
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The likes of Brymon etc have only managed to operate because of little or no competition.
I live 45 minutes from Plymouth and just over an hour from Bristol, last week I had to go to Edinburgh and these were the two options:
Brymon £650.00 from Plymouth to EDI calling at Bristol on the way up and Luton on the way back.
GO £150.00 from Bristol to EDI in less than an hour.
Enough said…! :o
I live 45 minutes from Plymouth and just over an hour from Bristol, last week I had to go to Edinburgh and these were the two options:
Brymon £650.00 from Plymouth to EDI calling at Bristol on the way up and Luton on the way back.
GO £150.00 from Bristol to EDI in less than an hour.
Enough said…! :o
Nobody seems to be mentioning the staff at Aberdeen, Belfast and Jersey who will no longer have jobs to go to.
I'd be very keen to hear the logic from our supposedly infallible bean counters who have come up with this supposed means of saving money and maximising profits.
Belfast to close... WHY? Withdrawing the ATP from BHD which operates the MAN service only to replace it with the RJ100 next year. Initially we're told that an Emb145 will nightstop!!! So now there will be 4 crew nightstopping in a local hotel, engineering spares will be needed at the base for an aircraft that hasn't been based there before. How is that saving money? What happens if a crewmember goes sick overnight? No standby cover.. no service! Then there's the SZD service on the J41. A service which was virtually always operating close to full capacity? LOGIC!!? Move the aircraft to Newcastle and increase the number of flights operated on their existing routes.
Then the next logical question is why was virtually nothing changed at GLA and EDI? In fact engineering jobs have been created at both these bases. GLA to BHD and EDI to BHD seem to regularly operate with passenger loads in single figures! Now I am not advocating that jobs should have gone at these bases, however I would like to know how these @ssholes who conducted the review can justify the three base closures announced.
Hopefully, someone from Aberdeen can back up my point by highlighting that their services were not as bad as is being implied.
A very bad decision which affects peoples LIVES!
I'd be very keen to hear the logic from our supposedly infallible bean counters who have come up with this supposed means of saving money and maximising profits.
Belfast to close... WHY? Withdrawing the ATP from BHD which operates the MAN service only to replace it with the RJ100 next year. Initially we're told that an Emb145 will nightstop!!! So now there will be 4 crew nightstopping in a local hotel, engineering spares will be needed at the base for an aircraft that hasn't been based there before. How is that saving money? What happens if a crewmember goes sick overnight? No standby cover.. no service! Then there's the SZD service on the J41. A service which was virtually always operating close to full capacity? LOGIC!!? Move the aircraft to Newcastle and increase the number of flights operated on their existing routes.
Then the next logical question is why was virtually nothing changed at GLA and EDI? In fact engineering jobs have been created at both these bases. GLA to BHD and EDI to BHD seem to regularly operate with passenger loads in single figures! Now I am not advocating that jobs should have gone at these bases, however I would like to know how these @ssholes who conducted the review can justify the three base closures announced.
Hopefully, someone from Aberdeen can back up my point by highlighting that their services were not as bad as is being implied.
A very bad decision which affects peoples LIVES!
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Not suprised by all the J41's being pulled from Cardiff with the high prices they charge, I think it will be only a matter of time before the Embraer is pulled as well. Hear EasyJet might be coming to Cardiff It is also a good opportunity for Air Wales to expand and take over the routes as they are getting bigger aircraft.
How many aircraft are left at Bristol?
How many aircraft are left at Bristol?
Last edited by skylord757; 25th Apr 2002 at 18:43.
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rhythm method
"Now I am not advocating that jobs should have gone at these bases".
Well what are you "advocating".
The jobs created at Gla have no bearing on the route structure at GLA, EDI or BHD as they are not Line jobs!
It's easy to be critical a lot harder to be constructive.
"Now I am not advocating that jobs should have gone at these bases".
Well what are you "advocating".
The jobs created at Gla have no bearing on the route structure at GLA, EDI or BHD as they are not Line jobs!
It's easy to be critical a lot harder to be constructive.
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Rhythm Method why look for logic?
Out of two profitable airlines the self same (things you sit on) have created one loss maker by parachuting in the dead weight of BAR with all its gross inefficiencies and fat for the platinum boys and girls.
FSand S (F$ck it up, Screw us and Screw again) is a face saving exercise by inadequate managers who are fighting to save their careers.
Brief to faceless bean counters is "For Ch$st sake get us out of this mess of our own creation by doing something.....Doesn't matter what it is as long as it appears to be a good shake up."
That my friend is the simple truth.
FSand S is a monumental gamble by men with no conscience in which we are the pawns.
Out of two profitable airlines the self same (things you sit on) have created one loss maker by parachuting in the dead weight of BAR with all its gross inefficiencies and fat for the platinum boys and girls.
FSand S (F$ck it up, Screw us and Screw again) is a face saving exercise by inadequate managers who are fighting to save their careers.
Brief to faceless bean counters is "For Ch$st sake get us out of this mess of our own creation by doing something.....Doesn't matter what it is as long as it appears to be a good shake up."
That my friend is the simple truth.
FSand S is a monumental gamble by men with no conscience in which we are the pawns.
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One can almost have sympathy with the viewpoint of some like Hand Solo in a different thread about our new RJ fleet. I suppose it is inevitable that our new management will, in a few years time, be buying Emerald Airways, Air Kilroe and Aer Arann, and we, in turn, will be squealing about our jobs and our airplanes going to a yet cheaper, lower cost base still operation. Of course, it won't be the end, because by then, current mainline recruiting will have been frozen for a while, and we will find ourselves subsumed onto 737s and Airbi, whilst their present incumbents staff the shrinking long haul division.
At the same time, Waterside will have expanded to capacity, and a new, purpose built tower next to Canary Wharf as the RJ fleet takes over LCY.
At about this time, someone else will come up the idea of a small regional carrier serving niche routes with a quality service, and the new BRAL will appear.
Tous ca change, toutes le meme chose !
At the same time, Waterside will have expanded to capacity, and a new, purpose built tower next to Canary Wharf as the RJ fleet takes over LCY.
At about this time, someone else will come up the idea of a small regional carrier serving niche routes with a quality service, and the new BRAL will appear.
Tous ca change, toutes le meme chose !
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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Heard this news from the crew on last night's CDG-CWL. What sort of numpties are running CitiExpress, pray tell?
BA in South Wales never advertise (a mate is a member of the Assembly who was blissfully unaware of the CWL-EDI, and has been driving to BHX), don't have promotions (unlike Air Wales), and then look askance when they get empty aircraft. Their load last night on CDG inbound was the typical 50%.
There are only a few options for BA's behaviour at Cardiff:
1. They don't want to fly there anyway and are looking to get rid of the traffic to get an excuse;
2. They couldn't possibly stand up to a behemoth such as Air Wales, and are throwing in the towel now;
3. They are being run by the most unimaginative, uncreative and stupid management team that ever drew breath.
I know where my money is. Lions lead by donkeys, as someone once said.
They ought to look at BA in the Highlands and Islands - apparently that couldn't be made to pay either, except new management proved it could....
Next step is renaming BA "EA" - since they seem not to want to play in Wales, Scotland or N Ireland, their claim to be anymore than English Airlines is looking pretty shabby.
Yrs not looking forward to the hike to BHX.....
TA
BA in South Wales never advertise (a mate is a member of the Assembly who was blissfully unaware of the CWL-EDI, and has been driving to BHX), don't have promotions (unlike Air Wales), and then look askance when they get empty aircraft. Their load last night on CDG inbound was the typical 50%.
There are only a few options for BA's behaviour at Cardiff:
1. They don't want to fly there anyway and are looking to get rid of the traffic to get an excuse;
2. They couldn't possibly stand up to a behemoth such as Air Wales, and are throwing in the towel now;
3. They are being run by the most unimaginative, uncreative and stupid management team that ever drew breath.
I know where my money is. Lions lead by donkeys, as someone once said.
They ought to look at BA in the Highlands and Islands - apparently that couldn't be made to pay either, except new management proved it could....
Next step is renaming BA "EA" - since they seem not to want to play in Wales, Scotland or N Ireland, their claim to be anymore than English Airlines is looking pretty shabby.
Yrs not looking forward to the hike to BHX.....
TA
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If nothing else this does give you some explanation of why so many of the flightcrew in BAR are hacked off with BA Management. We are not all seniority obsessed dipsticks and like you chaps we have been led up the garden path on numerous occaisions by D Evans etc
BAR has been dragged down not by pilot costs but the weight of waterworld and the thousands of hangers on that BA employ. This is of course in contrast to the lean and efficient little outfits you all worked for before coming under the BA umbrella.
Sadly some of the decisions your new Lords and Masters make lack common sense and will be probably be quietly revesed in some manner in a couple of years time. There is of course no accountability within management at BA so you might as well get used to it!
Regards BP
BAR has been dragged down not by pilot costs but the weight of waterworld and the thousands of hangers on that BA employ. This is of course in contrast to the lean and efficient little outfits you all worked for before coming under the BA umbrella.
Sadly some of the decisions your new Lords and Masters make lack common sense and will be probably be quietly revesed in some manner in a couple of years time. There is of course no accountability within management at BA so you might as well get used to it!
Regards BP
Twin Ailse you are dead right........even when we were BRAL, there was still virtually no advertising around Cardiff and south Wales. All you see at the moment are posters for Go out of Bristol stuck all over the city. I personally find it very frustrating as one of the Pilots that is going to be displaced by all this.
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BA managing their own decline - a year ago or so these Citiexpress airlines were PAYING BA to operate on their behalf and making a profit. Why buy them in the first place to bring them in under full BA costs. Cityflyer was transformed from a 6 +million a year profit making regional to a loss making wholly owned and managed subsidary in 6 months. -Wheres the sense?
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BA is basically bleeding money and cash is king, a company that is in debt to the tune of seventeen times its worth has big problems and BA has a long way to go yet before it has turned the corner any route not making a profit of 10% goes.
Explain to me the thinking behind reducing the number of jets in Southampton by two replacing them with four Dash 8's and increasing the number of EMB 145 in Bristol to five. People having got used to jets will not pay high fares to travel on a turboprop.
Southampton is a virtual BA monoply at the moment Bristol is facing a severe threat with GO taking much of their business, so why take a chance going head to head with another airline rather than building up and consolidating a base where there is little competion and a large catchment area, some of these decisions seem political rather than based on sound commercial sense.
Someone please explain to me how BA has survived for so long when it is so obviously such an appallingly run airline.
Explain to me the thinking behind reducing the number of jets in Southampton by two replacing them with four Dash 8's and increasing the number of EMB 145 in Bristol to five. People having got used to jets will not pay high fares to travel on a turboprop.
Southampton is a virtual BA monoply at the moment Bristol is facing a severe threat with GO taking much of their business, so why take a chance going head to head with another airline rather than building up and consolidating a base where there is little competion and a large catchment area, some of these decisions seem political rather than based on sound commercial sense.
Someone please explain to me how BA has survived for so long when it is so obviously such an appallingly run airline.
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Get a life Young Paul. Try posting something relevant, or do you spend all day checking all posts for correct grammar and spelling. You must be one of those guys who call "plus 1 kt", "1/8 dot fly down" etc,etc,yawn,yawn!!
Last edited by Blue Bay; 26th Apr 2002 at 10:28.
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TwinAisle you are absolutely spot on.
BA's commitment to routes outside England (with or without support from the devolved governments) is questionable. Unless, of course, they are very profitable (eg EDI/GLA-LHR).
Good luck to staff at CWL.
BA's commitment to routes outside England (with or without support from the devolved governments) is questionable. Unless, of course, they are very profitable (eg EDI/GLA-LHR).
Good luck to staff at CWL.