Virgin Atlantic
Join Date: May 2000
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The Prisoner You wouldn't happen to be the originator of that Virginlies website would you? That might explain your outburst and obvious hostility towards VS crews. For those that don't remember the incident, the guy in question had alledgedly assaulted a VS Cabin Crew and was subsequently arrested; he has spent a lot of energy since trying to throw dirt at RB and Virgin - methinks he doth protest too much! 
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Join Date: Jul 2000
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For all the critics and those who worry about where these stories come from, firstly try reading the National Press. If RB wants to sue the pants off the Sunday Telegraph Business Section Page 3 reporter then thats up to him
I am not going to name well placed city bankers who have their finger close to the pulse nor worried VS personnel who are surely in the know.
Its not wnat you know but who you know....
I am not going to name well placed city bankers who have their finger close to the pulse nor worried VS personnel who are surely in the know.
Its not wnat you know but who you know....
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Guv,
Would you please remove your head from your arse, not only does your breath stink, but your talking crap. The Nigeria route, is very profitable. The queues are fantasticly long, and more importantly the front is full. Apparently there is now an almost permanent encampment of VS limos and limo bikes down at Amaco and Shell. The loads on the route have slowed, but the from end remaines unaffected.
Would you please remove your head from your arse, not only does your breath stink, but your talking crap. The Nigeria route, is very profitable. The queues are fantasticly long, and more importantly the front is full. Apparently there is now an almost permanent encampment of VS limos and limo bikes down at Amaco and Shell. The loads on the route have slowed, but the from end remaines unaffected.
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Would be better if it was only VS wrestling with huge problems but unfortunately the problem is worldwide and so if you take say 20 or 30% load factors out of a hugely financially geared industry it means that most airlines become become worse than worthless but in fact a liability to the owners.Where do you redeploy capacity and why would leasing companies tear up contracts.Reducing staff and operations seems the only way to survive but that in itself introduces huge extra costs and so the cycle will worsen until confidence returns.No it,s not just VS - we are all in an industry in for medium term pain and the accent will be on retaining present market or obtaining another airlines loadings rather than expansion of ones own services.Let,s hope confidence returns sooner rather than later.
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V50 - had a lot of experience with Nigeria, have you? I have - I first lived out there in the mid 70s.
Let me tell you something you're obviously unaware of - a very large number of tickets on that route are sold for Naira, and CBN isn't exactly the world's fastest when it comes to expatriating funds. Also, the fare on the ticket is rarely the fare actually paid - especially by corporates.
LGW-LOS was BCal's most profitable route - unfortunately Sir Adam had to spend a great deal of his time down there negotiating the conversion of blocked monies into hard currency.
As a consultant, you should be well aware that hiccups in cashflow can be potentially disastrous when walking a line as fine as this one is.
Let me tell you something you're obviously unaware of - a very large number of tickets on that route are sold for Naira, and CBN isn't exactly the world's fastest when it comes to expatriating funds. Also, the fare on the ticket is rarely the fare actually paid - especially by corporates.
LGW-LOS was BCal's most profitable route - unfortunately Sir Adam had to spend a great deal of his time down there negotiating the conversion of blocked monies into hard currency.
As a consultant, you should be well aware that hiccups in cashflow can be potentially disastrous when walking a line as fine as this one is.
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Most of VS's traffic on that route originates in the UK from just 3 companies. They also account for most of the freight, shipping tools and office stuff. The main concern is if those 3 companies change thier policies. For the moment the route remains very profitable. The biggest problem is NoShows in Economy. If the Front and Belly pay in the UK and the back dont - well its still profitable.
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Yes, V50 - but what did I just say about special deals for corporates and the currency of payment? It's legal for any tickets of Nigerian residents (including expats) to be paid for in NGN - and surprise surprise, that's exactly what happens! In order to secure market share, BA frequently turns a blind eye to that rule and allows its Nigerian offices to issue PTAs for the head office wallahs to come down to Nigeria - again, paid for in NGN. I have no doubts VS does the same - and with any Nigeria Airways tie-up that's going to mean a much bigger chunk of change in the CBN.
Incidentally, I hear that the Woolly Pully is headed off to parts Asiatic with the begging bowl out.
How's this for a scenario:
RB: "Hey man, I'm brassic. Lend me a few million until the market recovers. Unfortunately, I can't give you any more shares since you're at the legal max - but hey, what's a few mill between friends?"
CCK: "Ah, so sorry. No spare cash. Let's talk about the money you already owe us and when you will be paying it back!"
RB: "Ummmm"
CCK: "OK, I have solution. You give us the whole of Virgin Blue so we can set up our Australian operation without having to bail out bloody Ansett and I'll bung you few bob"
RB: "But that's the only part of the biz that's doing well!"
CCK: "Of course! You think we want to take over any more of your dodgy operations? We've got a billion cans of Virgin Cola we can't shift!"
RB: "Er...."
CCK: "OK, you no wanna talk about that, no problem. Let's talk about something else. Like the clause in our agreement about no co-mingling funds with other group companies, and the accounting relationships of VA, Voyager, Plane Handling, Virgin Training, Virgin Spares, etc etc with companies in the BVI, Turks and Caicos and Caymans; and their relationships with V2, Virgin Mobile, Virgin Finance etc!"
RB: "Err, um, er, ... where do I sign?"
Note: The above does not refer, or impute to refer in any way that any individuals with the initials 'RB' or 'CCK' have had or necessarily will have this conversation in the future.
Incidentally, I hear that the Woolly Pully is headed off to parts Asiatic with the begging bowl out.
How's this for a scenario:
RB: "Hey man, I'm brassic. Lend me a few million until the market recovers. Unfortunately, I can't give you any more shares since you're at the legal max - but hey, what's a few mill between friends?"
CCK: "Ah, so sorry. No spare cash. Let's talk about the money you already owe us and when you will be paying it back!"
RB: "Ummmm"
CCK: "OK, I have solution. You give us the whole of Virgin Blue so we can set up our Australian operation without having to bail out bloody Ansett and I'll bung you few bob"
RB: "But that's the only part of the biz that's doing well!"
CCK: "Of course! You think we want to take over any more of your dodgy operations? We've got a billion cans of Virgin Cola we can't shift!"
RB: "Er...."
CCK: "OK, you no wanna talk about that, no problem. Let's talk about something else. Like the clause in our agreement about no co-mingling funds with other group companies, and the accounting relationships of VA, Voyager, Plane Handling, Virgin Training, Virgin Spares, etc etc with companies in the BVI, Turks and Caicos and Caymans; and their relationships with V2, Virgin Mobile, Virgin Finance etc!"
RB: "Err, um, er, ... where do I sign?"
Note: The above does not refer, or impute to refer in any way that any individuals with the initials 'RB' or 'CCK' have had or necessarily will have this conversation in the future.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Hi there, just want to return to the fact that VS definately depending on the North Atlantic - Airline Business etsimates an exposure of 75% based on OAG data which makes Virgin together with AerLingus an endangered species when it comes to revenues
from this segment.
Good luck out there. silversurfer
from this segment.
Good luck out there. silversurfer
The Guv is entitled to his opinion, we do live in a democratic country.
That said, I'm also sick of reading what he has to say. I sometimes escape to Airliners.net and, ****** me, he's on there too.
Guv.. Do you have a full time real job or do you, as others have suggested, trawl other websites all day long and post your endless opinions to the rest of us. Please let me know and maybe we could consider a job swap.
That said, I'm also sick of reading what he has to say. I sometimes escape to Airliners.net and, ****** me, he's on there too.
Guv.. Do you have a full time real job or do you, as others have suggested, trawl other websites all day long and post your endless opinions to the rest of us. Please let me know and maybe we could consider a job swap.
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The Gulf News
Tuesday, Oct 9, 2001
High-flying British tycoon and owner of Virgin airline, Sir Richard Branson, yesterday said he did not want to buy bealeagured Sabena, but instead wanted to acquire all the routes the Belgian airline had to pull out of.
"We don't want to buy Sabena, but we're trying to step into all the routes Sabena has pulled out of because they've gone bankrupt," Sir Richard told Gulf News. He was here to open the first Virgin Megastore in the Gulf - at Dubai's Deira City Centre.
Sir Richard said he was working with the Belgian Government. "We are in discussion with them. We'll know in two weeks what happens then".
American Airlines and Sir Richard were on Sunday named as two possible saviours of the Belgian airline now flying on the edge of collapse - affected as other airlines are by the steep fall in travelling public after the attacks on U.S.
Commenting on the affect on travel trade, Sir Richard said the worst-hit were trans-Atlantic carriers where travel may have dropped by up to 30 per cent - and could take longer than the 15-18 months it took for the travelling public to come back after the Gulf War.
Though against a state bail-out, Sir Richard was an even stronger opponent of a distorted playing field - created by the $18 billion in aid provided to U.S. airlines by the American Government.
Stressing that Virgin has not asked for state aid, Sir Richard thought that to maintain a level playing field, such aid could be given to trans-Atlantic carriers despite European Union Transport Commissioner, Loyola de Palacio, on Sunday ruling out such bail-outs.
"In most circumstances, governments should not be involved in supporting private airlines or companies. Private capital should be able to stand on its own feet".
"However, some governments are putting a lot of money into their airlines - American Airlines, United Airlines, Continental .... - they've been given $18 billion by America.
"Our load factors are down by as much as them (U.S. airlines). So there should be a balancing of books of carriers flying across the Atlantic.
"It is up to the government to decide. We haven't asked, but the (UK) government told us they'd make sure British trans-Atlantic carriers would not suffer any more than U.S. carriers," Sir Richard said.
He, however, was against providing state aid to short haul airlines.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tuesday, Oct 9, 2001
High-flying British tycoon and owner of Virgin airline, Sir Richard Branson, yesterday said he did not want to buy bealeagured Sabena, but instead wanted to acquire all the routes the Belgian airline had to pull out of.
"We don't want to buy Sabena, but we're trying to step into all the routes Sabena has pulled out of because they've gone bankrupt," Sir Richard told Gulf News. He was here to open the first Virgin Megastore in the Gulf - at Dubai's Deira City Centre.
Sir Richard said he was working with the Belgian Government. "We are in discussion with them. We'll know in two weeks what happens then".
American Airlines and Sir Richard were on Sunday named as two possible saviours of the Belgian airline now flying on the edge of collapse - affected as other airlines are by the steep fall in travelling public after the attacks on U.S.
Commenting on the affect on travel trade, Sir Richard said the worst-hit were trans-Atlantic carriers where travel may have dropped by up to 30 per cent - and could take longer than the 15-18 months it took for the travelling public to come back after the Gulf War.
Though against a state bail-out, Sir Richard was an even stronger opponent of a distorted playing field - created by the $18 billion in aid provided to U.S. airlines by the American Government.
Stressing that Virgin has not asked for state aid, Sir Richard thought that to maintain a level playing field, such aid could be given to trans-Atlantic carriers despite European Union Transport Commissioner, Loyola de Palacio, on Sunday ruling out such bail-outs.
"In most circumstances, governments should not be involved in supporting private airlines or companies. Private capital should be able to stand on its own feet".
"However, some governments are putting a lot of money into their airlines - American Airlines, United Airlines, Continental .... - they've been given $18 billion by America.
"Our load factors are down by as much as them (U.S. airlines). So there should be a balancing of books of carriers flying across the Atlantic.
"It is up to the government to decide. We haven't asked, but the (UK) government told us they'd make sure British trans-Atlantic carriers would not suffer any more than U.S. carriers," Sir Richard said.
He, however, was against providing state aid to short haul airlines.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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PaulDeGearup
Quote,'bmi is struggling to find pax for it's 330's-Major white elephant' unquote. Sorry Paul but bmi's loads have been excellent recently . Currently averaging 70-75% load factor plus an average of 11,000 kgs of cargo per flight.Not too bad given the current climate.
In fact ex MAN it's only bmi and Delta pulling the loads across the Atlantic.
Sorry all for going slightly 'off piste'.
Quote,'bmi is struggling to find pax for it's 330's-Major white elephant' unquote. Sorry Paul but bmi's loads have been excellent recently . Currently averaging 70-75% load factor plus an average of 11,000 kgs of cargo per flight.Not too bad given the current climate.
In fact ex MAN it's only bmi and Delta pulling the loads across the Atlantic.
Sorry all for going slightly 'off piste'.
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Clicked on this thread to read about Virgin, and all I see is ***** coming out of the Guv!!! I suggest that someone sends him a picture of a naked L1011 and when he opens it, a mother ****er big **** you in the ass virus chews up his computer and promptly turns itself into a karoke machine!
I have to say that all the bitching and backbiting between various folk spreading lies and false rumours about the state of various airlines is only contributing to the public's unwillingness to fly.
So SHUT THE F*CK UP if you don't have something rather more positive to contribute. Good luck to Virgin Atlantic, BA, britmidlandishbmi (or whatever the daft name is nowadays) and all other long haulers badly affected by the current terrorist induced downturn.
So SHUT THE F*CK UP if you don't have something rather more positive to contribute. Good luck to Virgin Atlantic, BA, britmidlandishbmi (or whatever the daft name is nowadays) and all other long haulers badly affected by the current terrorist induced downturn.
Evanelpus
I concur. Our Scottish encumbrance would seem, in his other guise of Ceilidh on Airliners.net, to have found a little helpmeet in 'Iainhol'. Their joint blathering has finally irritated me enough to post there. I can't be bothered to waste any more time on him/them so I'll just repeat it here....
"Absolutely fascinating!! Here we have two industry EXPERTS (Ceilidh being the self-styled CEO of a non-existent airline and Iainhol being a student/bartender) giving us their deeply considered opinions of the ACTUAL, FOR REAL accomplishments of a man who has managed to do more in the average month than these two wazzocks could manage in a lifetime.
I don't know (or care) what Iainhol's agenda is - other than making utterances from his fundamental orifice, but the other half of this doom-laden pair is similarly verbose and equally irrelevant in his other personna on Pprune as 'The Guvnor'.
What's my case in trying to put this pair of prats into perspective? Well, just that I have been in the PROFESSIONAL aviation business for close to FIFTY years and have worked for both BA and latterly Virgin. I don't think that in all of that time I have heard such continuous drivel spouted with such an unjustified air of authority as has issued forth from these two - and from Ceilidh/The guvnor, in particular. It just makes me realise that the oft quoted dangers of the internet come, not from the perils of pornography but from the inanities published by the untutored."
I concur. Our Scottish encumbrance would seem, in his other guise of Ceilidh on Airliners.net, to have found a little helpmeet in 'Iainhol'. Their joint blathering has finally irritated me enough to post there. I can't be bothered to waste any more time on him/them so I'll just repeat it here....
"Absolutely fascinating!! Here we have two industry EXPERTS (Ceilidh being the self-styled CEO of a non-existent airline and Iainhol being a student/bartender) giving us their deeply considered opinions of the ACTUAL, FOR REAL accomplishments of a man who has managed to do more in the average month than these two wazzocks could manage in a lifetime.
I don't know (or care) what Iainhol's agenda is - other than making utterances from his fundamental orifice, but the other half of this doom-laden pair is similarly verbose and equally irrelevant in his other personna on Pprune as 'The Guvnor'.
What's my case in trying to put this pair of prats into perspective? Well, just that I have been in the PROFESSIONAL aviation business for close to FIFTY years and have worked for both BA and latterly Virgin. I don't think that in all of that time I have heard such continuous drivel spouted with such an unjustified air of authority as has issued forth from these two - and from Ceilidh/The guvnor, in particular. It just makes me realise that the oft quoted dangers of the internet come, not from the perils of pornography but from the inanities published by the untutored."
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'A picture speaks a thousand words..
http://members.spree.com/travel/cact...0201n31023.jpg
[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: RVR800 ]
Picture is a bit too large for the page... edited it down to a url reference.
[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
http://members.spree.com/travel/cact...0201n31023.jpg
[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: RVR800 ]
Picture is a bit too large for the page... edited it down to a url reference.
[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
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I suppose there is no chance of the Guvvenorr and his chum 411A going on a holiday to Afganistan and give the rest of us a break from their ramblings. Either that or a winter holiday in Nigeria as he knows and loves it so well! 