Plane down near Almaty
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What regulations? My state regulations, and I think they're very adequate comparing with another ones which approves to descend down to DH even being informed by ATC at higher levels that RVR below minima. And if RVR is decreased while on final,this part is rather same-not arguing, you may go down to DH.Still,why would one need to descend down to DH knowing that you won't get landing clearance,why to take risk getting closer to ground. Even if they made a mistake with altimeter setting(I suppose that was the case) they'd have enough alt margin staying higher,maybe in holding.
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knowing that you won't get landing clearance,
What's your base country, former USSR?
Do you fly for military?
In "normal" civilian aviation world ATC tower doesn't give you clearance (or deny) clearance based on current weather or RVR.
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You're actually right with former USSR
,and yes,if RVR or ceiling...is below my minima, my states ATC would not grant me landing, I didn't get your point, please describe stupid me,the right sequence-rvr below minima, you continue approach,atc gives you rvr which is BELOW MINIMA God damn it, why wouldn't you discontinue approach at earlier stage (God forgive me).
,and yes,if RVR or ceiling...is below my minima, my states ATC would not grant me landing, I didn't get your point, please describe stupid me,the right sequence-rvr below minima, you continue approach,atc gives you rvr which is BELOW MINIMA God damn it, why wouldn't you discontinue approach at earlier stage (God forgive me).
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my states ATC would not grant me landing
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To ulugbek-pilot
Well, there are some situations, when it's not a bad idea to continue down to DA. As an example, RVR is fluctuating, and why make a go-around too early, if you're already stabilized on ILS, and mid- & stopend values are not below your t/o minima? Just wait for DA and make your decision.
Of course, this case was different, because Alma-Aty is often covered by thick fog & fumes during winter, and there's almost no chance for any changes until sunrise
Anyway, just wondering which state requires to stay at TL, because I can't really find any in our manuals.
Well, there are some situations, when it's not a bad idea to continue down to DA. As an example, RVR is fluctuating, and why make a go-around too early, if you're already stabilized on ILS, and mid- & stopend values are not below your t/o minima? Just wait for DA and make your decision.
Of course, this case was different, because Alma-Aty is often covered by thick fog & fumes during winter, and there's almost no chance for any changes until sunrise
Anyway, just wondering which state requires to stay at TL, because I can't really find any in our manuals.
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The tower gives you RVR and it is up to you what you do with it. Again, posts by A4 and Emel.OW explain more - read them. Yes, you arrive at DH and you decide what you can see and you land or go missed. There are separate regulations that tell you when you can descend below DH, what things you must see, etc.
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I've seen those posts. Our regulations are very restrictive at this point 
. Before approach we are asked about our minima and endurance, and if some element is below minima, take a guess That's why some foreign crews arriving here had some problems with our CAA after landing below minima (investigations and all that crap)
. Before approach we are asked about our minima and endurance, and if some element is below minima, take a guess That's why some foreign crews arriving here had some problems with our CAA after landing below minima (investigations and all that crap)
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The part of the world you fly in has one of the worst accident records in the world (only Africa is worse) so those 'restrictive' regulations clearly do not help.
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You are obviously mistaken, accident record is very low in here, just a couple of with those old Russian planes we used to operate(that had nothing to do with the regulations), the safest airliner we're considered in CIS. Don't you believe that all of your pilots being possessed by the landing wouldn't descend below minima hoping to see the precious RW, what's the difference East or West, we're all same-humans
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Am prompted by Karel x to add further observations, as follows.
Flaps are commanded by PF, set and confirmed by PNF.
PF commands WING ON, PNF confirms. Am curious to know what this means, could it be GLD system, improper early deployment of spoilers. What is the min height and speed regime for spoilers and flaps for the CRJ200.
The Barcelona Air Nostrum CRJ200 accident of July 2011 is a case in point. See link below.
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2590.pdf
The curious point in this instance the PNF`s calls for Levers set and Levers set indication. It is suggested that PNF carried out both actions of setting and checking.
Flaps are commanded by PF, set and confirmed by PNF.
PF commands WING ON, PNF confirms. Am curious to know what this means, could it be GLD system, improper early deployment of spoilers. What is the min height and speed regime for spoilers and flaps for the CRJ200.
The Barcelona Air Nostrum CRJ200 accident of July 2011 is a case in point. See link below.
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2590.pdf
The curious point in this instance the PNF`s calls for Levers set and Levers set indication. It is suggested that PNF carried out both actions of setting and checking.
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Now I play with audio using audio editor for a while and I found that there is a PF command "Flaps set" (rather then Lever set) a half of second erlier. I correct transcript already.
I guess that "Wing on" means deicing (heating) of the wing.
I guess that "Wing on" means deicing (heating) of the wing.
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Thank you for correction.
CRJ MISSED APPROACH PROFILE
1. TOGA power (take off go around power) , Spoilers in!
2. Positive rate (gear up, Flaps to 8* (first notch)
3. Sync speed mode, and activate Speed Mode (Set v2+15). Activate Hdg Mode (this should have already been set). AUTO PILOT ON! Change the NAV on the PFD to FMS and activate NAV Mode. It should intercept the missed approach coarse automatically. If not, use your heading bug to intercept the missed approach coarse then then activate NAV Mode.(sometimes the missed approach will have an initial turn before you can get on coarse.)
4. Flaps up before 180 kts, climb to the proper altitude and let the Autopilot fly the missed approach coarse. (after takeoff check)
CRJ LOW ENERGY MISSED APPROACH PROFILE
Same as the standard missed approach, Low energy means that you are to close to the runway and have retarded the thrust levers to begin the flare. During a low energy missed the landing gear may actually touch down on the runway surface because of the lag in spool up time with the engines. Once thrust is achieved and airspeed begins to accelerate then you continue the standard missed approach procedure.
1. TOGA power (take off go around power) , Spoilers in!
2. Positive rate (gear up, Flaps to 8* (first notch)
3. Sync speed mode, and activate Speed Mode (Set v2+15). Activate Hdg Mode (this should have already been set). AUTO PILOT ON! Change the NAV on the PFD to FMS and activate NAV Mode. It should intercept the missed approach coarse automatically. If not, use your heading bug to intercept the missed approach coarse then then activate NAV Mode.(sometimes the missed approach will have an initial turn before you can get on coarse.)
4. Flaps up before 180 kts, climb to the proper altitude and let the Autopilot fly the missed approach coarse. (after takeoff check)
CRJ LOW ENERGY MISSED APPROACH PROFILE
Same as the standard missed approach, Low energy means that you are to close to the runway and have retarded the thrust levers to begin the flare. During a low energy missed the landing gear may actually touch down on the runway surface because of the lag in spool up time with the engines. Once thrust is achieved and airspeed begins to accelerate then you continue the standard missed approach procedure.
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you are obviously mistaken, accident record is very low in here,
Last edited by olasek; 14th Feb 2014 at 21:49.
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We're not Russia and yes it's shame to have such a bad common record being one of the CIS countries cos of some loser airlines who doesn't give a 
of rules or even worse-passengers lives but profit. I know that you still think that after USSR disintegration we stayed as we were, NO,and this time you're misjudging
of rules or even worse-passengers lives but profit. I know that you still think that after USSR disintegration we stayed as we were, NO,and this time you're misjudging
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I travelled with SCAT once, with sisters CRJ-200 T/N 005, from Kazakh capital - Astana. SCAT had nice office at the airport with two girls, and although there was the only flight scheduled that day, they were here all day long. I paid for overweight, very cheep, maybe $4 for 5kg and I have forgotten some papers in the office. One of girls found mi in transit area, while I was waiting for gate opening, and gave me back my file. I sure can not say that they looks like thinking only for profit. On the other hand, my flight was several hours delayed and I looked forward Yak, that was initially scheduled.
Of course Kazakhstan is not Russia, but the same as in Russia you can see progress at every step. I believe that in several years the bad safety records will be history. But a economy collapse after disintegration was very deep, they say deeper than after WW2. My friend from Kazakhstan told me his story that after his car accident, while he waited for money from insurance, an inflation was so terrible that for the money he got he can buy a quite new car - radio controlled toy.
Of course Kazakhstan is not Russia, but the same as in Russia you can see progress at every step. I believe that in several years the bad safety records will be history. But a economy collapse after disintegration was very deep, they say deeper than after WW2. My friend from Kazakhstan told me his story that after his car accident, while he waited for money from insurance, an inflation was so terrible that for the money he got he can buy a quite new car - radio controlled toy.
Last edited by Karel_x; 15th Feb 2014 at 13:01.
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Ulugbek
All those (pilots possessed for landing) are one way or another NOT flying any more.
In your job you can hope for many things, BUT DO NOT HOPE for better view bellow MINIMA.
Why do we call it "MINIMA" by the way? Do not stay above, GO bellow ONLY if you see ground or Rwy lights , otherwise GO AROUND, change Rwy or APT,
only then you can state that we are all-same-humans.
Tamam ?
Don't you believe that all of your pilots being possessed by the landing wouldn't descend below minima hoping to see the precious RW, what's the difference East or West, we're all same-humans
In your job you can hope for many things, BUT DO NOT HOPE for better view bellow MINIMA.
Why do we call it "MINIMA" by the way? Do not stay above, GO bellow ONLY if you see ground or Rwy lights , otherwise GO AROUND, change Rwy or APT,
only then you can state that we are all-same-humans.
Tamam ?
Last edited by Green Guard; 16th Feb 2014 at 06:39.
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I believe that in several years the bad safety records will be history
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The main thing is not just institution, it's so-called "Russian" or "soviet" mentality. It's still normal for some pilots to rely not on the actual rules or regulations, but on their previous experience or "vision". CRM is often just a word, and some older pilots say "don't *** my brains with this western ***, we used to fly OK in the USSR without any CRM". We are all trying to get rid of this situation, but it's still a long way ahead. As some people say, "if you want a western pilot not to do smth, you just state that it's NOT RECOMMENDED in your FCOM. As for Russians, you have to say "HIGLY ABSOLUTELY ULTIMATELY PROHIBITED,", add some formulas from aerodynamics & math, and it's better if you add some photos of fatal accidents as well. And even then someone "very clever" will try to violate."
The situation is better in large companies, and it's getting better as new generation of pilots starts flying. And personally I really hope that some western instructors will be finally allowed to work for our airlines, to introduce the western culture to our people.
The situation is better in large companies, and it's getting better as new generation of pilots starts flying. And personally I really hope that some western instructors will be finally allowed to work for our airlines, to introduce the western culture to our people.