FAA Grounds 787s
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From: Seattle, WA
"Unnamed analysts" (so apply whatever level of salt you deem appropriate) suggest that the FAA will approve the 787's return to service as early as Friday once the NTSB holds their next hearings.
Last edited by Kiskaloo; 18th April 2013 at 03:17.
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From: UK
Doesn't the battery have 10 cells?
So if the containment is per cell, it would take ten of those containers?
Looking at the photo, it looks to me like it is the same battery with the extra outer containment case, and the connections extended to duplicates in the outer case.
So if the containment is per cell, it would take ten of those containers?
Looking at the photo, it looks to me like it is the same battery with the extra outer containment case, and the connections extended to duplicates in the outer case.
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From: lancs.UK
AIUI... Blue box in foreground, on a cafeteria-type table! is the original .
beside it (yellow) several cells (don't know if they're the "certified" or "new-improved" version.
Beige (wooden) stand at the back is the test-rig with the perspex-fronted prototype "cure the problem" containment -vessel.
those that have followed the thread will know the production version will have a metal-plate cover, not a perspex "demo" one!
beside it (yellow) several cells (don't know if they're the "certified" or "new-improved" version.
Beige (wooden) stand at the back is the test-rig with the perspex-fronted prototype "cure the problem" containment -vessel.
those that have followed the thread will know the production version will have a metal-plate cover, not a perspex "demo" one!
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Germany
Errrrr.....
In the new containment is a blue box installed.
Either quite some sensless demo or it will be the old battery box with unseen changes within.
The metal plate is shown by the guy on the right side of the pic.
I suggest, that the yellow boxes is the new isolation material within the old box.
In the new containment is a blue box installed.
Either quite some sensless demo or it will be the old battery box with unseen changes within.
The metal plate is shown by the guy on the right side of the pic.
I suggest, that the yellow boxes is the new isolation material within the old box.
Last edited by RetiredF4; 18th April 2013 at 15:09.
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From: engineer at large
What about all the rest of the wiring fiasco shown on the left side of the image?....
wiring at the back, behind the inspector is per code, with contraint within 6 inches of a connector....
wiring at the left looks like my kids stereo wiring...
wiring at the back, behind the inspector is per code, with contraint within 6 inches of a connector....
wiring at the left looks like my kids stereo wiring...
Last edited by FlightPathOBN; 18th April 2013 at 23:32.
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From: Seattle, WA
Ethiopian Airlines has loaded 787 revenue flights into their system resuming on 25 April. All Things 787 reports that a Boeing team is in Addis Ababa installing the new battery containment system on their 787 fleet.
It is rumored this is the date that the FAA will lift the AD grounding on the 787, with the assumption that other regulatory bodies would immediately follow suit as they did with the original grounding AD.
All Things 787 also report that the FAA has lifted the ban on Boeing and Customer test flights for the 787 and indeed two Boeing test flights were in the air today out of Everett - one of them testing the installation of the containment vessel on an ANA airframe.
It is rumored this is the date that the FAA will lift the AD grounding on the 787, with the assumption that other regulatory bodies would immediately follow suit as they did with the original grounding AD.
All Things 787 also report that the FAA has lifted the ban on Boeing and Customer test flights for the 787 and indeed two Boeing test flights were in the air today out of Everett - one of them testing the installation of the containment vessel on an ANA airframe.
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From: engineer at large
Then everything must be fine.... 
All things 787 also said this.
Boeing confirmed to me that they are resuming standard Boeing production flight testing under the approval of the FAA. The production flights will be normal Boeing flights meant to validate the aircraft's systems. There are no restrictions that the FAA has placed on these aircraft. All airplanes that are to be production tested will have the new batteries and the containment system installed. ZA512 (LN 83, JA818A) for ANA was to be the first aircraft to fly today but had only done some taxi tests.
We should see more and more 787s parked in Everett and Charleston to start conducting their standard B-1, B-2 and C-1, C-2 flights but these airplanes won't be delivered until the FAA has certified the batteries and the containment system for commercial use.
and of course...Boeing received an email as the Ethiopian Lottery Winner!
"A source in Ethiopia revealed that a team of 30 Boeing engineers, technicians and PR specialists landed in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia to prepare the 787s owned by Ethiopian for return to flight. The Boeing team is doing some prep work on the aircraft prior to the FAA decision which, according to the source, is believed by Boeing will be handed down around April 24th.
The Boeing team includes Rob Faye, worldwide sales director and Dennis Lucas, a Boeing technical director. It is believed though not confirmed that Randy Tinseth along with Adam Morgan and executive with Boeing's International Communications will also be there but are still awaiting the FAA's decision.
The team will work on one aircraft at a time and should have Ethiopian's 4 787s ready to fly in about 3 to 4 weeks after the FAA approves the change.
Of course this date is not a firm date but a date that Boeing believes the FAA will announce its decision."
All things 787 also said this.
Boeing confirmed to me that they are resuming standard Boeing production flight testing under the approval of the FAA. The production flights will be normal Boeing flights meant to validate the aircraft's systems. There are no restrictions that the FAA has placed on these aircraft. All airplanes that are to be production tested will have the new batteries and the containment system installed. ZA512 (LN 83, JA818A) for ANA was to be the first aircraft to fly today but had only done some taxi tests.
We should see more and more 787s parked in Everett and Charleston to start conducting their standard B-1, B-2 and C-1, C-2 flights but these airplanes won't be delivered until the FAA has certified the batteries and the containment system for commercial use.
and of course...Boeing received an email as the Ethiopian Lottery Winner!
"A source in Ethiopia revealed that a team of 30 Boeing engineers, technicians and PR specialists landed in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia to prepare the 787s owned by Ethiopian for return to flight. The Boeing team is doing some prep work on the aircraft prior to the FAA decision which, according to the source, is believed by Boeing will be handed down around April 24th.
The Boeing team includes Rob Faye, worldwide sales director and Dennis Lucas, a Boeing technical director. It is believed though not confirmed that Randy Tinseth along with Adam Morgan and executive with Boeing's International Communications will also be there but are still awaiting the FAA's decision.
The team will work on one aircraft at a time and should have Ethiopian's 4 787s ready to fly in about 3 to 4 weeks after the FAA approves the change.
Of course this date is not a firm date but a date that Boeing believes the FAA will announce its decision."
Last edited by FlightPathOBN; 19th April 2013 at 14:31.
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From: huntsvegas
For what purpose are all those circuit boards
In that bottom card rack next to the APU battery location? Looks like some sort of VME chassis with a shedload of cards...
If Boeing and subs understood the Lithium charging procedure there would be no need for the bigass containment box, just like the little 28VDC backup Lithium pack on the second shelf near the bill of the inspector's hat--iirc that short box has a 7-cell lithium pack with lid openings at all the corners, and it's not going into a vault. Why do you suppose that is the case?
The Aft EE looks like a hail-mary parts bin sale at radio shack--just throw some stuff up on the racks, run some wires and hope it works. Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing...Sad
If Boeing and subs understood the Lithium charging procedure there would be no need for the bigass containment box, just like the little 28VDC backup Lithium pack on the second shelf near the bill of the inspector's hat--iirc that short box has a 7-cell lithium pack with lid openings at all the corners, and it's not going into a vault. Why do you suppose that is the case?
The Aft EE looks like a hail-mary parts bin sale at radio shack--just throw some stuff up on the racks, run some wires and hope it works. Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing...Sad
Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Seattle, WA
Racks of equipment seems to be how they do it based on these pictures of from the bay of a 737-800 []Photos: Boeing 737-8Q8 Aircraft Pictures | !!!!!!!!!!!!!! and 777-200 []Photos: Boeing 777-212/ER Aircraft Pictures | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Last edited by Kiskaloo; 19th April 2013 at 12:46.
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From: US/EU
New York Times also reported expected lifting of ban today (Friday) by FAA:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/19/bu...ef=todayspaper
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/19/bu...ef=todayspaper
Guest
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From: Not where I want to be
Kiskaloo, just wondering, what was the point of that A300 picture? Couldn't see much electronic equipment there. Why not post a pic from a B727 or something else equally irrelevant.
Per
Per
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From: Seattle, WA
It was the only picture I could find of an Airbus electronics bay in a quick Google search, Ancient Mariner, but I agree it doesn't really show anything so I have omitted it.
Last edited by Kiskaloo; 19th April 2013 at 12:46.
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From: Seattle, WA
Press Release - FAA Approves Boeing 787 Battery System Design Changes
The FAA will publish next week the final directive that will allow UA to resume operations of the 787. It is expected other regulatory agencies will follow shortly to allow the 787 to resume services worldwide.
Update: FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said the agency hasn’t changed the Dreamliner’s ETOPS (“extended operations”) certification, which means the 787 will have continued approval to fly up to three hours away from the nearest airport.
The FAA will publish next week the final directive that will allow UA to resume operations of the 787. It is expected other regulatory agencies will follow shortly to allow the 787 to resume services worldwide.
Update: FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said the agency hasn’t changed the Dreamliner’s ETOPS (“extended operations”) certification, which means the 787 will have continued approval to fly up to three hours away from the nearest airport.
Last edited by Kiskaloo; 19th April 2013 at 20:08.
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From: lancs.UK
Unless my old eyes and scratched bin's are decieving me, the pretty picture of the blue box has only 2 visible screws holding the top on at the front....even assuming a repeat on all four sides, that's 8 fasteners.
I submit that , given the front and top layouts, given the "demo" unit in the frame on the right and in the absence of a sound-track or a view of the whole stage, -this is, indeed, a presentation on the lines of,-
"This is what we tried to get away with.....and this is the way we've addressed the most visible shortcoming."
I can't say I'm surprised the FAA has approved the modifications.....almost anything has to be an improvement on the original.
I submit that , given the front and top layouts, given the "demo" unit in the frame on the right and in the absence of a sound-track or a view of the whole stage, -this is, indeed, a presentation on the lines of,-
"This is what we tried to get away with.....and this is the way we've addressed the most visible shortcoming."
I can't say I'm surprised the FAA has approved the modifications.....almost anything has to be an improvement on the original.
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From: Placerville, CA
cockney steve:
The fasteners on the blue box have not changed much if at all. But the fire box which now contains the blue box has something like 30 or more screws all around the mounting flange of the removable front cover plate. That is the one which will take some maintenance time.
You should be able to see pictures of that box, but with a transparent display cover instead of the actual SS cover plate earlier in the thread.
Unless my old eyes and scratched bin's are decieving me, the pretty picture of the blue box has only 2 visible screws holding the top on at the front....even assuming a repeat on all four sides, that's 8 fasteners.
You should be able to see pictures of that box, but with a transparent display cover instead of the actual SS cover plate earlier in the thread.
Last edited by inetdog; 19th April 2013 at 22:03.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 128
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From: USA
External pressure
Fergineer,
Sadly we are seeing at the FAA similar things that I have seen in my field of medicine. Industry titans pressure and bully federal regulators into a corner....very sad IMHO. Kudos to the NTSB for trying to stay above it all.
Cheers 1
Sadly we are seeing at the FAA similar things that I have seen in my field of medicine. Industry titans pressure and bully federal regulators into a corner....very sad IMHO. Kudos to the NTSB for trying to stay above it all.
Cheers 1