Ryanair, too low on..
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I recall that an ERJ145 had a similar high energy approach into HAJ some years back that resulted in a text book go around and landing, both pilots took a hike, from what I've read these guys should have broken off the approach much much earlier, i don't think its anything to do with FR culture, they got it wrong plain and simple and should be supported by the company, perhaps with some re training, they won't do it again thats for sure
PH-Chucky
They might have performed a text-book go-around, but that was AFTER they screwed up this approach....
They might have performed a text-book go-around, but that was AFTER they screwed up this approach....
I go with BOAC on that one.
Last edited by RetiredF4; 10th Dec 2012 at 22:29.
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Ryanair plane carrying 141 passengers from Manchester 'nearly crashed over Germany after pilots altered landing approach to make up lost time' | Mail Online It said one pilot was 30 years old (I assume he's the captain) and the co-pilot was 29. Just wonder is it normal to (be able to) be captain at 30 years old on a B737 or is it just Ryanair?
what's the problem with age?
Plenty of pilots have had to work their way up through the lower ranks of aviation and never even got an interview before thirty and so are somewhat envious as well. The question of whether this career ladder climbing exercise really does any good toward that building of knowledge experience and proficiency is usually asked by the ones who took a shorter and more direct route to the left seat though isn't it?
So I wouldn't put too much stock in people questioning the age of a captain. It's just that most people concern themselves more with their own perspective than that of others. Way of the world...
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Are there go arounds (at any airline) except ATC and WX caused ones, which have no beforehand screw up as cause?
I believe the youngest pilot to be promoted to Captain at Ryanair was circa 25 years old.
No reason why not - they have passed all the checks/training and have the requisite experience.
Also plenty of other operators with "young" Captains.
No reason why not - they have passed all the checks/training and have the requisite experience.
Also plenty of other operators with "young" Captains.
I'm pretty sure Thomson had a B737 captain aged 24, splendid bloke he is too!
I don't think age and competence are related. Competence can be aquired with experience, but not every pilot benefits, I've flown with plenty of 50 somethings who haven't the faintest idea what they are doing.
I don't think age and competence are related. Competence can be aquired with experience, but not every pilot benefits, I've flown with plenty of 50 somethings who haven't the faintest idea what they are doing.
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Guys, I was only "wondering" if it is normal practice to be promoted captain at that age regardless of the airline, surely there are many very competent pilots out there below the age of 30s, with 5000+ PIC hours etc. Thank you for the inputs 
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Last edited by Bearcat; 13th Dec 2012 at 08:10.
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i don't think its anything to do with FR culture
The Pilot in Command (PIC) stated take-off in Manchester had been delayed by
about 25 - 30 minutes. During the flight the crew decided to land on runway 24 at
Memmingen Airport. The PIC stated the reason was the short taxiways to the apron
after landing on runway 24. Were the landing to take place on runway 06 the airplane
would have to taxi to the end of the runway and then turn back. The aim was to make
good on some of the time lost in Manchester.
about 25 - 30 minutes. During the flight the crew decided to land on runway 24 at
Memmingen Airport. The PIC stated the reason was the short taxiways to the apron
after landing on runway 24. Were the landing to take place on runway 06 the airplane
would have to taxi to the end of the runway and then turn back. The aim was to make
good on some of the time lost in Manchester.
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I think it's entirely legitimate to ask intelligent questions about how human factors are affected by short turnaround times.
Very short turnaround times are a comparatively new way of operating an airline. From a "conservative" safety standpoint, anything radically new must be assumed to be potentially unsafe until proven otherwise.
What is NOT ok, in my humble opinion, is to make blanket assumptions and sweeping generalizations regarding safety based on a single incident (and it's even less helpful when such assumptions are intermingled with a general animosity towards everything Ryanair). Memmingen wasn't the first, and probably won't be the last such incident in Ryanairs history either. It's human to make mistakes. Cork 2006 ( Serious Incident: B737-800, EI-DCT, Cork Airport, 4 June 2006: Report No 2007-002 | AAIU.ie ) comes to my mind, and some other similar incidents.
Ryanair landed safely 3.34 million times between 1992 and 2011, without a single fatal accident. That's a good safety record. And a lot of flights. Unsurprisingly, there will be some ("serious") incidents, like Memmingen and Cork.
Ryanair has all the FOQA data, in near real-time, and I trust they use it for all it's worth.
Very short turnaround times are a comparatively new way of operating an airline. From a "conservative" safety standpoint, anything radically new must be assumed to be potentially unsafe until proven otherwise.
What is NOT ok, in my humble opinion, is to make blanket assumptions and sweeping generalizations regarding safety based on a single incident (and it's even less helpful when such assumptions are intermingled with a general animosity towards everything Ryanair). Memmingen wasn't the first, and probably won't be the last such incident in Ryanairs history either. It's human to make mistakes. Cork 2006 ( Serious Incident: B737-800, EI-DCT, Cork Airport, 4 June 2006: Report No 2007-002 | AAIU.ie ) comes to my mind, and some other similar incidents.
Ryanair landed safely 3.34 million times between 1992 and 2011, without a single fatal accident. That's a good safety record. And a lot of flights. Unsurprisingly, there will be some ("serious") incidents, like Memmingen and Cork.
Ryanair has all the FOQA data, in near real-time, and I trust they use it for all it's worth.
Last edited by deptrai; 13th Dec 2012 at 12:41.
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From the BFU interim report:
"...the airplane was in about 5,400 ft AMSL with a heading of about 117°.
Then the crew initiated a right-hand turn using the autopilot and continued the descent. An altitude of 2,096 ft AMSL had been pre-selected..."
Memmingen airport altitude is about 2070 ft. Were they trying a visual autoland then
"...the airplane was in about 5,400 ft AMSL with a heading of about 117°.
Then the crew initiated a right-hand turn using the autopilot and continued the descent. An altitude of 2,096 ft AMSL had been pre-selected..."
Memmingen airport altitude is about 2070 ft. Were they trying a visual autoland then
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Confusion, I think. I don't think even on an Irish 737 you can 'select' 2096' and that sounds like threshold elevation in the FMS to me.
(Trusting it is R24, of course.............
)
(Trusting it is R24, of course.............
)
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it will allow a 'selected' altitude of 2096 on the MCP.
) know when to click in 100's and when to click in single ft?
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One needs to be extremely careful before going visual, in marginal conditions, or any conditions. If there is the slightest doubt, dont do it. Forget about MOL breathing down you neck, as they will soon get rid of you if you screw up.
Think of your passengers safety!!
"Why did you do that Captain?? You fault Captain", and that is true. It just aint worth it.
Think of your passengers safety!!
"Why did you do that Captain?? You fault Captain", and that is true. It just aint worth it.
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 13th Dec 2012 at 15:36.