Kamchatka crash: Both pilots drunk
Pegase Driver
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This link may also be deleted by mod since it has some offensive scenes in some cultures.
That says a lot about Russians too.
Nearly all of the Russians I crossed in my carreer were all great guys, before after the collapse of the USSR.
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Since we are talking about different cultures in regard to attitudes to safety, I posted a youtube link showing pre flight preparations etc. in a TU-154, which demonstrates some - for a professional - obvious differences.
That post was deleted by mod.
It is obviously of more importance on this forum to discuss the correct spelling of "na zdrowie" in Polish.
Anyone wants me to try and post it again, for comparison of SOPs, and a following discussion?
That post was deleted by mod.
It is obviously of more importance on this forum to discuss the correct spelling of "na zdrowie" in Polish.
Anyone wants me to try and post it again, for comparison of SOPs, and a following discussion?
Last edited by paparomeodelta; 25th Oct 2012 at 06:32.
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paparomeodelta
This is the "international" spelling:
I can't wait ! 
It is obviously of more importance on this forum to discuss the correct spelling of "na zdrowie" in Polish.
Anyone wants me to try and post it again, for comparison of SOPs, and a following discussion?
Last edited by jcjeant; 25th Oct 2012 at 07:56.
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Now they will have not only preflight, but also postflight alco checks in Kamchatka since this week, "as an additional safety measure"....
Last edited by liider; 30th Oct 2012 at 09:36.
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Greeting to all from a native russian and an ex-aeroflot pilot!!
Thank you for your interest. Russian aviation has a lot of safety problems (we were the most dangerous country in the World to board an airplane in 2011). Most of the problems are because of the leftovers from the soviet rule and the current police state we live in..
The tolerances to risk are much higher and breaking the rules is a national sport. Also the wide spread corruption causing people to be half depressed because they can't progress in life as much as they deserve to.
The big issues are:
• Very basic flight training education.
• Very low experience upon the entry into the workforce. A kid with 80 hours in a Yak-18 going into the A320 or B737 is a norm. There is a Captain upgrade program for pilots with 800 hours of total time.
• Lack of discipline or motivation.
You bump into people that simply don’t care. They will do the very minimum – just how it was in socialism. No pride for the job any longer. If you are not connected you will be FO for a long, long time. If you are connected you will be sorted by the importance of your connection. Sons of congressmen upgrade within a year. Then they tell everyone how sharp they are. If you don’t bring regular bribes to the scheduling you will fly the worst trips for the least pay. That is why once people reach a certain level the apathy settles in.
Companies are hurting for pilots and everyone flies up to the legal limit – 92 block hours every month. A330 guys fly in two-men crews regardless of flight time, except to the US after the FAA threatened to take the rights away.
Yes, there is a medical test before every flight. Nurse, not an MD, blood pressure, heart rate and overall condition assessment through a simple conversation. Why do we have it and the rest of the World doesn’t? Drinking and breaking rules is deep in the culture.
Does it help to have it? I think so, but intoxicated pilots flying the jets is nothing new or unheard of.
With all that being said there are a ton of people who do a good job. They still love it and work to become better at it. Many try to emigrate or find commutable contract jobs elsewhere while still living in Russia.
The comments about nazdarovie made me smile
.
На здоровье, за ваше здоровье, за твоё здоровье, будьте здоровы – it truly is all Russian, acceptable and widely used! Not sure how the Polish use it..
Thank you for your interest. Russian aviation has a lot of safety problems (we were the most dangerous country in the World to board an airplane in 2011). Most of the problems are because of the leftovers from the soviet rule and the current police state we live in..
The tolerances to risk are much higher and breaking the rules is a national sport. Also the wide spread corruption causing people to be half depressed because they can't progress in life as much as they deserve to.
The big issues are:
• Very basic flight training education.
• Very low experience upon the entry into the workforce. A kid with 80 hours in a Yak-18 going into the A320 or B737 is a norm. There is a Captain upgrade program for pilots with 800 hours of total time.
• Lack of discipline or motivation.
You bump into people that simply don’t care. They will do the very minimum – just how it was in socialism. No pride for the job any longer. If you are not connected you will be FO for a long, long time. If you are connected you will be sorted by the importance of your connection. Sons of congressmen upgrade within a year. Then they tell everyone how sharp they are. If you don’t bring regular bribes to the scheduling you will fly the worst trips for the least pay. That is why once people reach a certain level the apathy settles in.
Companies are hurting for pilots and everyone flies up to the legal limit – 92 block hours every month. A330 guys fly in two-men crews regardless of flight time, except to the US after the FAA threatened to take the rights away.
Yes, there is a medical test before every flight. Nurse, not an MD, blood pressure, heart rate and overall condition assessment through a simple conversation. Why do we have it and the rest of the World doesn’t? Drinking and breaking rules is deep in the culture.
Does it help to have it? I think so, but intoxicated pilots flying the jets is nothing new or unheard of.
With all that being said there are a ton of people who do a good job. They still love it and work to become better at it. Many try to emigrate or find commutable contract jobs elsewhere while still living in Russia.
The comments about nazdarovie made me smile
.На здоровье, за ваше здоровье, за твоё здоровье, будьте здоровы – it truly is all Russian, acceptable and widely used! Not sure how the Polish use it..
Last edited by Flaps45; 19th Nov 2012 at 03:17.
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Thanks, Harry!
kateean2,
Exactly right..
It is heartbreaking; Russia is averaging over 4 gallons of alcohol per capita, per year. This data is slightly misleading because Russians consume a lot more hard liker, like Vodka, in comparison to say, Germans who mostly drink beer. They say: “Well, maybe for a walk in a park I’ll crack a bottle of beer, but when we a sitting at a table, partying with my friends, we don’t bother with girly drinks!”
However, it is not just about the quantities.. Sadly, the bigger issue is the lack of common sense and drinking on the job or “budgeting” not enough time to metabolize prior to report for duty.
They even brag about it!! They talk about parties and getting hammered all the time. Many youngsters crave this “risky and exiting life”…
All this peer pressure gets them through the young years and then plain addiction kicks in and they can’t stop even if they want.
Not sure where we lost it.. Possibly with the destruction of meaningful religion? Maybe with socialism and government control in everything? .. when people lose the freedom to achieve something relying only on themselves and God?
When I moved to America I hit the ground running. I built the life I always wanted and needless to say haven’t had an alcoholic drink in 15 years.
All the best to all!
Be careful what you let your body become addicted to. Treasure the freedoms you have.
PS. There is an important development in progress in the Russian aviation law. The Duma (Parliament) has a bill going through, which should make it possible for foreign nationals to fly for Russian domestic and international airlines. I am looking forward to such change. I hope it will bring professional attitudes back into the cockpits.
kateean2,
Exactly right..
It is heartbreaking; Russia is averaging over 4 gallons of alcohol per capita, per year. This data is slightly misleading because Russians consume a lot more hard liker, like Vodka, in comparison to say, Germans who mostly drink beer. They say: “Well, maybe for a walk in a park I’ll crack a bottle of beer, but when we a sitting at a table, partying with my friends, we don’t bother with girly drinks!”
However, it is not just about the quantities.. Sadly, the bigger issue is the lack of common sense and drinking on the job or “budgeting” not enough time to metabolize prior to report for duty.
They even brag about it!! They talk about parties and getting hammered all the time. Many youngsters crave this “risky and exiting life”…
All this peer pressure gets them through the young years and then plain addiction kicks in and they can’t stop even if they want.
Not sure where we lost it.. Possibly with the destruction of meaningful religion? Maybe with socialism and government control in everything? .. when people lose the freedom to achieve something relying only on themselves and God?
When I moved to America I hit the ground running. I built the life I always wanted and needless to say haven’t had an alcoholic drink in 15 years.
All the best to all!
Be careful what you let your body become addicted to. Treasure the freedoms you have.
PS. There is an important development in progress in the Russian aviation law. The Duma (Parliament) has a bill going through, which should make it possible for foreign nationals to fly for Russian domestic and international airlines. I am looking forward to such change. I hope it will bring professional attitudes back into the cockpits.
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"fraid you won't get any improvement in transport safety in Russia until you root out the cause. One group of people have different laws from the rest,.
This headline is an almost daily occurrence in Russia, from the abuse of the Migalki brigade, and the endemic corruption.
This was the flavour of the month of October:-
"A drunken Russian police officer rammed his vehicle into a retiree yesterday, killing her on the spot, shortly before another officer ran over a six-year-old girl in Moscow.
The cases came after at least two other fatal road accidents perpetuated by inebriated officers over the last fortnight, underlining Russia’s problem with drunk-driving.
Yesterday morning a police officer “who was drunk at the wheel ... mowed down a 74-year-old retiree, who died on the spot from her injuries”, according to a statement issued by police from the far-eastern Primorie region.
Just hours later in Moscow, another officer hit the girl as she was crossing the road with her mother, Moscow Echo radio said.
The child has been hospitalised. According to a preliminary investigation, however, the driver was sober in this case.
On Friday, another officer, who was inebriated, hit three pedestrians, killing one.
The police officer was on leave at the time of the accident, Moscow police said then.
And a week earlier, the head of criminal police from a Saint Petersburg district, also drunk, ran over a man who died on the spot.
The police officer tried to flee, but was caught by a nearby patrol.
Russia has one of the worst road accident rates, due to alcoholism and drivers’ failure to respect the highway code.
Authorities said the number of accidents reached a record 200,000 accidents in 2011, leading to 28,000 deaths. "
This headline is an almost daily occurrence in Russia, from the abuse of the Migalki brigade, and the endemic corruption.
This was the flavour of the month of October:-
"A drunken Russian police officer rammed his vehicle into a retiree yesterday, killing her on the spot, shortly before another officer ran over a six-year-old girl in Moscow.
The cases came after at least two other fatal road accidents perpetuated by inebriated officers over the last fortnight, underlining Russia’s problem with drunk-driving.
Yesterday morning a police officer “who was drunk at the wheel ... mowed down a 74-year-old retiree, who died on the spot from her injuries”, according to a statement issued by police from the far-eastern Primorie region.
Just hours later in Moscow, another officer hit the girl as she was crossing the road with her mother, Moscow Echo radio said.
The child has been hospitalised. According to a preliminary investigation, however, the driver was sober in this case.
On Friday, another officer, who was inebriated, hit three pedestrians, killing one.
The police officer was on leave at the time of the accident, Moscow police said then.
And a week earlier, the head of criminal police from a Saint Petersburg district, also drunk, ran over a man who died on the spot.
The police officer tried to flee, but was caught by a nearby patrol.
Russia has one of the worst road accident rates, due to alcoholism and drivers’ failure to respect the highway code.
Authorities said the number of accidents reached a record 200,000 accidents in 2011, leading to 28,000 deaths. "
