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Another Korean Airlines Classic

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Another Korean Airlines Classic

Old 16th Nov 2012, 13:37
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Another Korean Airlines Classic

On August 28,2012 a Korean Airlines A330 enroute from Brisbane to Incheon makes a 2.3G landing?? in ICN. Winds were appproximately 60 degrees off the runway @ 27 gusting to 37 knots. Yes, a challenging approach, but within the operational limits of the aircraft(obviously not within the capabilities of the Korean Line Instructor Pilot who made the so-called landing). At the time ICN was receiving the effects of a typhoon in the region. Damage to the aircraft has been reported to be $4 million dollars. Unless Korean CASA has a different method of determining an accident, any damage over $1 million is considered to be an accident. However, not this one. It seems that the Korean Airlines powers that be have determined the aircraft encountered "a microburst" on landing. The Korean Captain is still an LIP and another incident/accident has been swept under the rug.

Some of the details that have not surfaced: The foreign relief captain who observed the Korean Captain's discomfort with the weather conditions(anyone who has ever flown in Korea knows that the Koreans almost sh@t themselves when confronted with a 10-15 knot crosswind let alone a 20-30 knot crosswind component) offered to make the landing for the Captain. Of course, the Korean declined in order to save face(save face but don't save your life or the life of the passengers). During the ensuing investigation by the Safety?? department at Korean Airlines(by the way the company's slogan is "Safety is the Way") the foreign captain was never interviewed. The foreign captain was on the jumpseat and observed the debacle. The only microburst was in the Korean captain's pants. But then, you know how those foreign devils lie and besides that they nothing about aviation.

And yet, foreigners continue to line up in droves to fly here. YGBSM!

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN THEY FLY IN THE SAME AIRSPACE!!

Last edited by Keylime; 16th Nov 2012 at 13:58.
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Old 16th Nov 2012, 21:49
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Any record of any such mishap?? Press story??
Not at this time....I will guarantee you there is plenty of paperwork internally in Korean Airlines.
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Old 17th Nov 2012, 10:34
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Korean Airlines has been on my NO FLY list for a long time. There's no room for a "save face" culture in aviation.
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Old 17th Nov 2012, 10:39
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I'd be very surprised if this was happening only at Korean, or in the "save face" culture airlines. It could be fairly claimed that some western airlines might be inclined to cover up such incidents too.
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Old 17th Nov 2012, 13:14
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It could be fairly claimed that some western airlines might be inclined to cover up such incidents too.
Sure there are other airlines that have covered up incidents/accidents. These guys have a long history. And, it gets longer every month. The problem with this airline is it is systemic. From the top down. This will continue until they plant another airplane in the ground. They won't fix it themselves even though they know they have a problem. It is cultural. Recent ATC violations in San Francisco and Australia. A continuing problem. In the past they have blamed it on the ATC controllers. Have listened to the tapes, standard ATC terminology used by controllers. Always the other person's fault. Blame. Blame. Blame. I am surprised they didn't figure out how to blame the foreign captain who was sitting on the jumpseat and observed the entire incident. About one year ago a foreign 747 captain was on break when the two Korean first officers went to sleep on the flight deck and lost contact with ATC. They gave the captain a letter of reprimand. Do you get the picture Durban???

Last edited by Keylime; 17th Nov 2012 at 13:16.
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Old 17th Nov 2012, 14:35
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All KAL's A330 were reportedly flying in September, so if they did $4m worth of damage to one at the end of August, they carried out the repairs very promptly.
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Old 17th Nov 2012, 16:58
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This Eastern save face approach is going to be one of the biggest threats to aviation as traffic in this area expands at an unprecedented rate. Its a cultural issue rather than a Korean Airlines issue. No easy answers.
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Old 17th Nov 2012, 17:41
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This Eastern save face
Eastern...?

What about Spain, Italy, South America etc.?

Check this...

http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/500684-landing-ts.html

Last edited by hetfield; 17th Nov 2012 at 17:55.
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Old 17th Nov 2012, 20:29
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Eastern save face or Western hogwash?

Some of the details that have not surfaced: The foreign relief captain who observed the Korean Captain's discomfort with the weather conditions(anyone who has ever flown in Korea knows that the Koreans almost sh@t themselves when confronted with a 10-15 knot crosswind let alone a 20-30 knot crosswind component) offered to make the landing for the Captain. Of course, the Korean declined in order to save face(save face but don't save your life or the life of the passengers
Wow, why didn't he relieve the Korean Captain of his command? This foreign relief captain's nose has grown so much longer that I guess he has to stuff it in where the sun doesn't shine. We all have heard of " foreign captain " fairy tales at bars and crew lounges. Come on, the world has changed...you cannot flick up a lighter amongst natives and spin your yarns of codswallops no more. The things people to get their 15 minutes of fame! Remember what the Indian chief meant by w**** gi****o speaks with forked tongue!!!

Last edited by haejangkuk; 17th Nov 2012 at 20:31.
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Old 17th Nov 2012, 21:21
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I seriously doubt this kind of self serving, self aggrandizing yarn by the foreign relief captain. There are consequences.
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Old 17th Nov 2012, 23:23
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ha ha ha..

On August 28,2012 a Korean Airlines A330 enroute from Brisbane to Incheon makes a 2.3G landing?

Blame. Blame. Blame. I am surprised they didn't figure out how to blame the foreign captain who was sitting on the jumpseat and observed the entire incident. About one year ago a foreign 747 captain was on break when the two Korean first officers went to sleep on the flight deck and lost contact with ATC. They gave the captain a letter of reprimand. Do you get the picture Durban???


keylime:

How do you know so much about Korean Ailines ?

I am an expat flying for Korean Airlines and yes, I have reserched to find
out who was on Airbus 330 on Aug 28, 2012

And you know what ?
There was no expat flew to Incheon on that day ?

Keylime,

Please don't write a novel because you make me and other expats of
Korean Airlines look bad. We are trying to get along with Korean pilots
but your nonsense article make us difficult.

I don't mind if anyone post the fact so we can learn from it but false info
like keylime's post should not be allowed.

Thanks.
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Old 18th Nov 2012, 04:11
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A 2.3 G landing causing $4M worth of damage?

That's a fair old whack, but not one that should require anything more than an inspection- on the 777 the telemetry doesn't even record it as a hard landing unless it exceeds 2 G.
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Old 18th Nov 2012, 05:17
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Wiz it's not just the total G pulled it's how fast the G came on ... they plot G vs time in 0.1 second increments and there's a huge chart they have to refer to to calculate the severity from that.

QR pulled a mid-2's landing on an A330 in Jeddah about 3 years ago and I heard the repair bill was more like $20 million ... two main landing gears, some wing spar and fuselage work as well
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Old 18th Nov 2012, 06:29
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It does seem that the Airbus is more fragile than Boeing in general.
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Old 18th Nov 2012, 07:01
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...and we call this thing here Professional Pilots Rumour Network.
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Old 18th Nov 2012, 11:23
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Keylime

I fully get your frustration. I'm just saying that everything you've posted about Korean (whose reputation is well-deserved) can easily be posted about many western styled airlines. I know this first hand too.
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Old 18th Nov 2012, 12:54
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Thanks for the info Luke.
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Old 18th Nov 2012, 12:54
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I have worked in Eastern countries for a number of years and I really have not witnessed face saving any more than in the West. The thing that I suggest is more likely to cause an airline or country to experience more incidents/accidents is corruption ie there is a willingness to compromise safety for financial gain. Look at the “Corruption Index” in Wikipedia and do a quick analysis. How do the “more corrupt countries” and the accident rate compare?
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Old 18th Nov 2012, 14:18
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Luke, I've never heard of the rate of change of G having any significance - G itself is a rate of change (acceleration) and that is what affects the structure. I may not be up to speed on the physics of this but I cant see how the rate of change of a rate of change signifies anything in terms of physical effects on the system.
Totalising G over time is used to calculate fatigue life, sure, and that may be the case here but that's a simple matter of integrating the signal from the G meter...and is surely only useful as a long-term measure of things like spar life, not short sharp shocks?

Can you - or anyone else - explain whether this is the case? And also what that graph is for?
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Old 18th Nov 2012, 16:43
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So you are blaming the poor chap for slaming the A/C into the ground with 2.3G? I have done a landing myself with an innocent 738 with 2,15 G on a ****ty day into Southend, but probably I am the only lousy pilot on God´s great planet. Shame on me.

Don´t be too hard on the guy, better think about your own screw ups!

Repulo

PS: I do however agree with the fact that this should not be covered up. Everybody can learn a lesson from the story.
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