Thomas Cook Fleet Reduction
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
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Where exactly do I state that I am thankful? I have no idea who is on the CC as I am no longer a member. If there is an error with the seniority list, it should be raised with the DFO.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Fantom, by hanging out in Pprune rather than your "Private" room, others can make reasoned judgements. You may wish to hang out behind your Balpa Box key too. No wish to pull of thread but look, I have been very anti Union since I entered the employment scene in 1965. Unions were FULL of the bully boys who would otherwise have no power whatsoever. They nearly bought the whole damn country to it's knees. I had to laugh, sitting on the loo at LGW reading the graffiti written on the back of the toilet door. One contributor exclaimed "Workers, UNITE to smash big business". A reply was pencilled in.."And then who would YOU work for" !
Therein lies the roots. Into professional flying, I resisted nasty bully boy tactics to join BALPA. The usual Flt Deck chats with unbalanced views failed to pursuade. Even then, whole mobs were insensed that I was enjoying terms & Conditions negotiated by BALPA. I was happy to negotiate my own TCs with the Management but it became clear that I would most likely enjoy greatly enhanced status and was pursuaded by my Fleet Captain to drop the issue.
Winning the "James Thane" case was the fave "pursuasive" case argument offered by one, so called 'Training Captain' who , failing to succeed, retorted that he & other BALPA Captains would cease to offer me any handling " in order to protect" me !
I left the damned BALPA company & joined a Company who's Management view was very anti-union. I enjoyed fabbo flying days, better terms & conditions & moved again, only for better Command Opportunity. My pursuasion to my new Company Management was that a really good company would never need a Union. They agreed.BAPLA never got a look in because there was no need to "UNITE" !
TCX appears to be a Union Company. Should you wish to accept employment in such a scenario, you go with the ball game. If within the game, one remains free to join or remain outside, that freedom should be respected.
On thread, stay on site TCX & do not let anyone , er, "pursuade" you into anything you feel to be unprofessional. Good luck to all who face very unsettling and worrying times.
Therein lies the roots. Into professional flying, I resisted nasty bully boy tactics to join BALPA. The usual Flt Deck chats with unbalanced views failed to pursuade. Even then, whole mobs were insensed that I was enjoying terms & Conditions negotiated by BALPA. I was happy to negotiate my own TCs with the Management but it became clear that I would most likely enjoy greatly enhanced status and was pursuaded by my Fleet Captain to drop the issue.
Winning the "James Thane" case was the fave "pursuasive" case argument offered by one, so called 'Training Captain' who , failing to succeed, retorted that he & other BALPA Captains would cease to offer me any handling " in order to protect" me !
I left the damned BALPA company & joined a Company who's Management view was very anti-union. I enjoyed fabbo flying days, better terms & conditions & moved again, only for better Command Opportunity. My pursuasion to my new Company Management was that a really good company would never need a Union. They agreed.BAPLA never got a look in because there was no need to "UNITE" !
TCX appears to be a Union Company. Should you wish to accept employment in such a scenario, you go with the ball game. If within the game, one remains free to join or remain outside, that freedom should be respected.
On thread, stay on site TCX & do not let anyone , er, "pursuade" you into anything you feel to be unprofessional. Good luck to all who face very unsettling and worrying times.
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Good luck to all at TCX, my friend has just done 6 months there but unfortunately is now at the end if the contract.
BALPA were toothless when I needed them before, we all went and joined the TGWU. Being a Tory boy that was a big step but gave us some protection.
BALPA were toothless when I needed them before, we all went and joined the TGWU. Being a Tory boy that was a big step but gave us some protection.
"Pursuade" is that the sort of shoe that pursers (RN) wear? I could be persuaded that it belongs to the grocer WHOSE apostrophe was stolen. I am not sure I recognised much of the rest of the discussion, which seems to have been lost in myth and legend.
Dog Tired
Slow,
You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it.
However, 'bully-boy' tactics is below the belt and certainly nothing I have encountered. I was once asked if I would support a forthcoming work-to-rule and replied that, as I had only been in the Co for six weeks and agreed the T+Cs, how could I?
I did join some time later but left, having decided it was not worth it and contrary to my uber R-wing ideals.
Guess what? Starting to operate into USA I realised I needed protection so I joined again. Pure and simple.
The important message from me (returning to the original point of this thread) is that, in my opinion, those representing TCX pilots in BALPA are some of the most genuine guys I have ever worked with and deserve great respect.
You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it.
However, 'bully-boy' tactics is below the belt and certainly nothing I have encountered. I was once asked if I would support a forthcoming work-to-rule and replied that, as I had only been in the Co for six weeks and agreed the T+Cs, how could I?
I did join some time later but left, having decided it was not worth it and contrary to my uber R-wing ideals.
Guess what? Starting to operate into USA I realised I needed protection so I joined again. Pure and simple.
The important message from me (returning to the original point of this thread) is that, in my opinion, those representing TCX pilots in BALPA are some of the most genuine guys I have ever worked with and deserve great respect.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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'BEARDY' ; Loved it. Just choked on my first shot of caffeine ! Maybe I meant ' per suede' ! 'FANTOM', I was referring to the dreadful 1960's & early 70's. I enjoyed employment with my sponsoring airline & hated the thought of "withdrawing" my labour in support of some herly bird in dispute with Bristows ! I hated the handling of the BEA/BOAC/BARD merger where some Bapla reps did very well & I wound up bottom of BEA ! Of course things got better where silly Managements decided to negotiate only with BALPA PLC'c . I am aware of the tremendous efforts of the new breed of BALPA Rep & no intended offense exists. I still prefer non Union Companies & enjoyed the greater part of my career with them. Apologies for going off thread a bit & I still feel for all in TCX .
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Slowjet, your opinions seem to have been formed as a result of what you experienced in the 70s and, frankly, I'd probably have come to the same position myself.
But things have changed and perhaps you should look again at the world around you. Although you may have been clever enough to negotiate for yourself some really good terms and conditions, try that today as a contractor with Ryanair and see how far you get. The young men and women starting out today are being thoroughly exploited by the management of these 'low cost' airlines and individually they can do nothing about it. They will only improve their lot by acting collectively; something they have obviously failed to do.
We in TCX are lucky enough to have an agreement that sees the Company obliged to negotiate with our professional body; BALPA. We live in the real world (not a half forgotten world of three day working weeks, electricity cuts, Scargill and Red Robbo) and membership of a Union does not make that go away, it does not immunize you from change. It does however give you a voice, a say in the process of change and a counterweight to management excess.
The BALPA CC in TCX cannot undo the damage done by the incompetent management of recent years but they can try to ensure that the changes necessary are shaped in such a way that our Airline remains the great place to work for pilots that it is now, even in the midst of all this crap; an aim un achievable acting individually.
And before before anybody accuses me of being a BALPA stooge I must state that beyond being a member I have little else to do with the Association. I simply believe that we must try to speak to 'Management' with one voice.
But things have changed and perhaps you should look again at the world around you. Although you may have been clever enough to negotiate for yourself some really good terms and conditions, try that today as a contractor with Ryanair and see how far you get. The young men and women starting out today are being thoroughly exploited by the management of these 'low cost' airlines and individually they can do nothing about it. They will only improve their lot by acting collectively; something they have obviously failed to do.
We in TCX are lucky enough to have an agreement that sees the Company obliged to negotiate with our professional body; BALPA. We live in the real world (not a half forgotten world of three day working weeks, electricity cuts, Scargill and Red Robbo) and membership of a Union does not make that go away, it does not immunize you from change. It does however give you a voice, a say in the process of change and a counterweight to management excess.
The BALPA CC in TCX cannot undo the damage done by the incompetent management of recent years but they can try to ensure that the changes necessary are shaped in such a way that our Airline remains the great place to work for pilots that it is now, even in the midst of all this crap; an aim un achievable acting individually.
And before before anybody accuses me of being a BALPA stooge I must state that beyond being a member I have little else to do with the Association. I simply believe that we must try to speak to 'Management' with one voice.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Thanks Bernoulli. Excellent post. Just hung up my flying boots and agree we live in a vastly changed climate. I am, frankly, glad to be out of it & again apologise to any BALPA reps of the "real world" who, I know, do very excellent work on behalf of members.
