US shuts down EU Carbon Tax for US Airlines

[con-pilot]

hetfield, you are aware of course that there are many European manufactured vehicles that can be bought and used in the UK and Europe, that are not allowed to be sold in the US, because they cannot met the US's emission standards.

Germany is building more coal fired power plants, in the US we are shutting coal fired power plants down.

AGW is a complete fraud. If the climate is warming, man has sod all to do with it. Even so, the so-called pollutants from aircraft is minuscule.

This carbon tax is just an excuse for demanding tax monies for the EU, has nothing to do with saving the planet.

Besides that, the EU has no right what so ever to demand a tax for anything outside its airspace. If they want to tax me for flying in EU airspace, nothing I can do about that. But don't charge me a tax when I'm not in EU airspace.

[Lyman]

I take issue with EU claiming money anywhere. It is an alliance, and as such has no mercantile rights of its own. If some countries want to affiliate, that is fine, but to arrogate a legal authority to play highwayman to the world's economy is odious.

I do not wish ill for anyone, but I would like to point out that some "constructions" do not serve those they rule.

[Dannyboy39]

Anyone who believes the planet isn't warming are sticking their heads in the sand.

And almost all the time, the people that don't believe it, it won't affect directly. Anyone seen a significant increase in natural hazards/disasters in recent years? Flooding, hurricanes, tornadoes, snowfall etc.

Oh no, its in poorer nations people don't care about! The Maldives for example will not exist in a few decades time because they'll be under water. Why? Because of climate change!

[con-pilot]

Because of climate change!

The climate is changing, the climate has always changed and always will. When it is time to worry about the climate, is when it stops changing.

But the EU charging a so-called carbon tax on aircraft flying to and from Europe, for the entire route incluidng outside of the EU's airspace, is just a scam for money.

Nothing more and nothing less. As I posted before, it has sod all to do with climate change.

[stuckgear]

I feel sorry, if US Citizens kill eachother day by day.

as do citizens of every nation on this planet.

But that's not my business.

so why then are you making it your business and trying to make an agenda out of it, which is completely disconnected from the thread subject ?

Global warming affects me and my children and the US are, like others, responsible.

For millenia, the planet has continually warmed and cooled. a couple of thousand years ago (30ish) there was an ice sheet over a kilometer deep that spread from the northern pole to southern midwest of the USA. it's retreat was toss all to do with aircraft.

the US is not responsible for trajectory of the planet though space, or perhaps you would feel more comfortable blaming GWB for that?

I offered the opportunity to provide empirical evidence for CO2 causing global warming and you respond with hysterics.

so,

Show empircal evidence that CO2 causes global warming.

i will give you a heads up here.. there is none.

There is factored and manipulated data to support a theory that CO2 causes global warming, but there is no evidence.

anyone could cite a theory that your backside emits watermelons and provide factored and manipulted data to support that theory, but it does not make it fact.

then,

provide evidence that global warming in fact exists and is human driven.. again see above, there is no data to support this, there is factored and manipulated data to support the theory that it happens but there is no evidence. and historically, we know that the climate has gone through huge changes, both warmer and colder, before mankind existed, so explain that.

IT'S NOT YOUR PLANET!

neither is it yours, but it my tax money that is being spent on unicorns.

let me give you this little quote to digest:

The next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world’s resources will be negotiated. – Ottmar Edenhofer

Edenhofer, by the way, when that statement was made, was the Co-Chair of the IPCC Working Group.

[Lyman]

Precisely so, stuckgear. The entire kerfuffel is a device. The goal is primacy in the governance of the Planet. "Redistribution".

Resources are always distributed, that is the nature of humankind. Controlling the means of distribution is also part of the psyche of man...

There has not been a category three or higher Hurricane to hit the US landmass since 2005, a time period unique in the historical record.

As the Planet is currently losing (shedding) energy, the cooling that is measurable lessens these energetic events.

A cold Planet is quiet, weatherwise. There is nothing more quiet (save the wind) than Drought...

Look for "Climate Change" to shift to "Cooling" in a short calculated time.

This will require an about face in the handling of Carbon credits, of course.

Possible? Inevitable.

Whether the Planet warms, or cools, the Carbonistas cannot lose, they collect the handle, the vigorish, either way.

Bookies never lose, ever.

If only Gore can be patient, he will have a big pay day, WARM, or COLD.

That is the goal, to monetize CARBON.

I think Gore et al are working on AIR.

[Dannyboy39]

But the EU charging a so-called carbon tax on aircraft flying to and from Europe, for the entire route incluidng outside of the EU's airspace, is just a scam for money.

How is flying to/from Europe, the entire route outside the EU?

[Lyman]

Dannyboy...

Did you check your logic at the door?

[stuckgear]

Anyone who believes the planet isn't warming are sticking their heads in the sand.

And almost all the time, the people that don't believe it, it won't affect directly. Anyone seen a significant increase in natural hazards/disasters in recent years? Flooding, hurricanes, tornadoes, snowfall etc.

Oh no, its in poorer nations people don't care about! The Maldives for example will not exist in a few decades time because they'll be under water. Why? Because of climate change!

well, hang on.. is it warming or cooling ?


And if it is warming or cooling, why is that human activity and not the natural climate cycles of this planet ?

There is NO, Zero, Zip, Zilch emperical evidence that the planet is indeed warming or that it is driven by human activity.

If *YOU* want to be concerned about environment, rather than running around in hysteria shouting about global warming, why not actually stand up for the decimation of rainforest and the loss of Orangutan habitat, which are being cleared on a huge industrial scale to provide.... errm... eco-friendly [sic] bio-fuel plantations for EU destined bio-fuels which are mandated by EU law to be used incrementally over the coming years.

Or is that little fact too much for a brain to get around ?


No, there has not been a huge increase in natural hazards / disasters over recent years. There has only been an increase of the ability of news outlets to present the events to the public. Not even a couple of decades ago, a natural disaster could have taken days to be in the media, today it can be shown live.


as posted by Green Granite elsewhere:


As you can see, the temperature variation anomolies were greater in 1850 than today.

Besides, the EU-ETS will not change one bloody thing in terms of climate and temperature.

Ands as for your hissy fit about the Maldives:

It's B/S about rising tide, if anything, it's geological movement that is the biggest threat to the Maldives.

So here. fill yer boots... or waders...

Despite popular opinion and calls to action, the Maldives are not being overrun by sea level rise | Watts Up With That?

The Maldives are sinking – and we aren’t talking about sea level | Watts Up With That?

The Maldives Emily Littella sea level moment – never mind… | Watts Up With That?

And yet again, the EU-ETS is not only punitive to the industry, it will have no effect on climate, and as posted previously the EU policies on climate is actually damaging to the environment. (see growth of biofuel plantations and damage to the environment.)

EU biofuel mandates could cost every adult about €30 each year by 2020. In 2008, about €3 billion were spent in tax exemptions yes, that's tax exemptions..

European biofuel mandates are unlikely to deliver a significant reduction and could even increase greenhouse gas emissions

The EU has approved a binding biofuels mandate of 10% by 2020

It has calculated that the land required to meet these mandates for biofuels for European cars for one year could feed 127 million people


Orang-utans home destroyed for bio-diesel - Telegraph

Biofuel boom endangers orangutan habitat

So please don't give me all this AGW save the planet garbage, all you are doing is toeing the line of the vested interests with their own agendas that serve to sacrifice this industry on the altar of climate change while ignoring that the very policies its spouts are damaging to environment directly and not by any factored or manipulted data to support an unproven theory but by FACT.

AGW is bunkum and belongs with Chemtrails and the EU-ETS is a fraud.

[uffington sb]

Dannyboy.

Just to make it simple for you.
If say I'm flying from LAX to CDG, I'm flying to Europe, but if I'm flying
from CDG to LAX, I'm flying from Europe.
Simples

[hellsbrink]

@con-pilot

With that kind of attitude/arrogance this global problem will definitlely not be solved.

Take a look who, behind China, is the worst air poluter!!!

Like I said, feel free to kill yourself, but not me.

More absolute pig ignorance from someone who has no idea.

I suggest you look at the stats for "carbon dioxide pollution" PER CAPITA and realise how low the US really is. Yes, Australia is actually worse than the US, and huggy-fluff "look at all our wonderful wind power" Denmark is FAR worse than China. When we move to "greenhouse gases" as a whole, the situation is the same, Australia is a worse polluter than the USA and huggy-fluff Denmark is FAR worse than China.

So look at who is actually polluting the most before you spout off more nonsense, look at which population is burning the most fuel per capita, then come back to us in the thread for this subject in JB. And expect your anti-american wittering to be treated with the "respect" it deserves if you do find the nerve to join the discussion there.

[con-pilot]

How is flying to/from Europe, the entire route outside the EU?

If I leave OKC in my Falcon 900EX and go non-stop to London, I would be charged for the entire route, not just the small portion of the route I would be in EU airspace.

That is complete nonsense, to be charged for the entire route, not just the time I spent in EU airspace. Shouldn't really be charged at all for this carbon fraud, in or out of EU airspace.

Fortunately now, it looks like Congress agrees. If President Obama will sign the bill, I don't know. But at least it is a step in the right direction, as not to be held hostage by the EU.

[hetfield]

And expect your anti-american wittering to be treated with the "respect" it deserves if you do find the nerve to join the discussion there.

It's completely up to you, to reflect what the US left behind in Vietnam, Korea, Irak, not to mention Afghanistan and not to forget, in your own country (Gun control).

Take a look to your Citizens, US Victims of mentioned threads. Take a look to all the post Vietnam victims, all the suicides within your glorios armed forces.

Relax, think about it and try to be honest....

[ShedsRus]

Carbon con

As has been said carbon credits are traded like stocks - in other words they're not worth the paper they're printed on.

The way this is set up it is just a revenue stream burdening everybody with a tax which once in the <exchange> generates profits for the few and misery for the rest.

Pyramid selling and Ponsi schemes are illegal yet here comes another <legitimate?> scheme from those non elected gravy train riders in Europe.

The farce continues while, as usual, the supine Brits lie there and think of England while being shafted yet again.

More power to the US, China, and any one else with the balls to stick two fingers to these people.

[stuckgear]

so hetfield, you are basing your anti-US rhetoric on EU-ETS not by dint of climatology but on:

Vietnam, Korea, Irak, not to mention Afghanistan and not to forget, in your own country (Gun control).

open forum question:
there's a word i am thinking of.. can anyone help me out with that ?

[hetfield]

More power to the US, China,

Oh yeah, they will, for sure, save our planet

But interesting, to see the US along with China......

[stuckgear]

The farce continues while, as usual, the supine Brits lie there and think of England while being shafted yet again.

More power to the US, China, and any one else with the balls to stick two fingers to these people.

i take issue with that, rather lie back and think of england, it's more a case of face down, biting the pillow.

though i do agree with the US, China, Russia, India, Brasil, most of the S. and C. American states, as well as other challenging this farce.

[stuckgear]

Oh yeah, they will, for sure, save our planet

yet, you succinctly ignore the facts.

one would consider that as much '' you do, it wont knock any sense in, or drive out those murrican deamons.

[con-pilot]

Oh yeah, they will, for sure, save our planet

These carbon taxes have nothing to do with saving a planet, especially one that needs not saving from CO2.

So, let me ask you a couple or so questions.

Just how is the EU going to use this ransom money to "save" the planet?

What are they going to use it for except to line the EU's pockets?

Is there a machine that the EU can buy with this money to "save the planet"?

So tell us just what for this money will be used?

Take your time, I'll wait.

[hetfield]

@con-pilot

Please tell me what the US are doing about climate change, except to point their fingers on the rest of the world.

It's all about money. People who are much more clever than I am, and maybe more than you, know about it. Don't step into the Lobbyism trap.

I hope, you, your belovest, your kids will never ever become a victim of US Lobbyism.