Aurela (Operating for Monarch) off the runway at BHX
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe this is a fall out of the pax compensation rules. Companys using any legal airframe they can get.
Most of the subs I have done have been for max three days when an aircraft is AOG.
Most of the time its been "get there ASAP your going......."
Even had one where the CP turned up at the aircraft door while it was getting put to bed after he had gone tech on the stand next door. 30 mins later we were on our way with thier Hostie down the back as company rep. And she was more worried about the bar than what we were doing in the front.
Most of the subs I have done have been for max three days when an aircraft is AOG.
Most of the time its been "get there ASAP your going......."
Even had one where the CP turned up at the aircraft door while it was getting put to bed after he had gone tech on the stand next door. 30 mins later we were on our way with thier Hostie down the back as company rep. And she was more worried about the bar than what we were doing in the front.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So all this slating of Monarch and Aurela - can I presume that no British carrier (BA, TOM or VS) have ever had the misfortune to have an incident to one of their own units?
And if they had, presumably everyone that has commented on the appalling decision by MON to use Aurela would ever fly with that British airline again?
Just wondering.....!
And if they had, presumably everyone that has commented on the appalling decision by MON to use Aurela would ever fly with that British airline again?
Just wondering.....!
Last edited by Picasa; 24th Sep 2012 at 10:31.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Mids
Age: 43
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A320
Flying the BHX - AGP route this coming weekend and was due on the sub'd 733 - Monarch tell me that they are using one of their own 320's (at least on the Sunday AGP - BHX)
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The blasted heath
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA at LGW have certainly used Monarch and Astreus in the past for subs, the BCN route (discontinued but due to start again in Feb...yippeee!!).
As a pax, and aside from the poor legroom, Monarch was pretty good and served the BA product pretty well.
I like Monarch but find their website too fiddly, too complicated, and generally opt out half way through - EZY is streets ahead (and they have 6 not 2 flights a day LGW/BCN).
I do remember that my stepfather flew with Pancho Villa and was offered the job of top captain at the fledgling Monarch - he turned it down as he didn't think the company would last!!!!!!!!!
As a pax, and aside from the poor legroom, Monarch was pretty good and served the BA product pretty well.
I like Monarch but find their website too fiddly, too complicated, and generally opt out half way through - EZY is streets ahead (and they have 6 not 2 flights a day LGW/BCN).
I do remember that my stepfather flew with Pancho Villa and was offered the job of top captain at the fledgling Monarch - he turned it down as he didn't think the company would last!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: manchester
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Picasa
'And if they had, presumably everyone that has commented on the appalling decision by MON to use Aurela would ever fly with that British airline again?'
Well that will not be a problem as Monarch themselves moved swiftly; in a press release following the incident stated that they will not be using Aurela any more.
I wonder how many other UK airlines will take a look at who they are subchartering ?
lets play a game and see the names of similar operations that have worked in this interesting world. Here are a few just to get us started.
Air Scotland Greek registered I think
TBA Tristar registered ?
Air Ops
Omega 707 somewhere in Africa ?
Smart Lynx
Small Planet
Viking
My starter for ten.....
'And if they had, presumably everyone that has commented on the appalling decision by MON to use Aurela would ever fly with that British airline again?'
Well that will not be a problem as Monarch themselves moved swiftly; in a press release following the incident stated that they will not be using Aurela any more.
I wonder how many other UK airlines will take a look at who they are subchartering ?
lets play a game and see the names of similar operations that have worked in this interesting world. Here are a few just to get us started.
Air Scotland Greek registered I think
TBA Tristar registered ?
Air Ops
Omega 707 somewhere in Africa ?
Smart Lynx
Small Planet
Viking
My starter for ten.....
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
trackfpa320 - whats your point? Because it is not registered in Kingsway, London it must be dodgy?
G-reg a/c have had the misfortune to suffer incidents in the past (not to distant past as well)
Not that I disagree with you regarding some of the more obscure airlines and their registration.
G-reg a/c have had the misfortune to suffer incidents in the past (not to distant past as well)
Not that I disagree with you regarding some of the more obscure airlines and their registration.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: manchester
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have no problem with other nationalities or registrations, per se. I do have grave concerns about certain regulators not performing satisfactory oversight of their operators; especially when they are operating in a third party country some distance from home. Should the local authority have more involvement and oversight with these style of operations ? I think they should.
Many aviation authorities require financial stabilty and enough rescources to maintain a safe operation. ( Pilots, engineers, spares, training capacity etc etc). If you look at this style of operator, just think how many have been and gone. Take a look at some of the operators 'based' in the UK right now, do you think all of them would pass a full UK CAA AOC audit ?
Monarch choose to use an operator, however due to this incident they have now decided to stop using them. Should they have picked up shortcomings in this operation before; maybe. I bet you Monarch will be looking much much closer at sub charter operations from now on don't you?
I don't think any corporate body (Airline OR tour operator) should be allowed to abdicate their responsibilites when it comes to sub chartering.
Just because an operation is based within the EASA region is not a good enough answer, it is NOT a level playing field.
Unless something changes in regulation and oversight, this senario will just be repeated and sadly the ending maybe far more serious. That's just my opinion.
Many aviation authorities require financial stabilty and enough rescources to maintain a safe operation. ( Pilots, engineers, spares, training capacity etc etc). If you look at this style of operator, just think how many have been and gone. Take a look at some of the operators 'based' in the UK right now, do you think all of them would pass a full UK CAA AOC audit ?
Monarch choose to use an operator, however due to this incident they have now decided to stop using them. Should they have picked up shortcomings in this operation before; maybe. I bet you Monarch will be looking much much closer at sub charter operations from now on don't you?
I don't think any corporate body (Airline OR tour operator) should be allowed to abdicate their responsibilites when it comes to sub chartering.
Just because an operation is based within the EASA region is not a good enough answer, it is NOT a level playing field.
Unless something changes in regulation and oversight, this senario will just be repeated and sadly the ending maybe far more serious. That's just my opinion.
Last edited by trackfpa320; 30th Sep 2012 at 16:58.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midlands
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I bet you Monarch will be looking much much closer at sub charter operations from now on don't you?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: U.K.
Age: 75
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grave concern.
trackfpa320 Quote "I have no problem with other nationalities or registrations. I do have grave concerns about certain regulators not performing satisfactory oversight of their operators..."
If you do have "grave concerns" about certain regulators (understandably), then you should have serious problems with the nationalities and registrations that those regulators administer.
Your concerns would not be unwarranted.
If you do have "grave concerns" about certain regulators (understandably), then you should have serious problems with the nationalities and registrations that those regulators administer.
Your concerns would not be unwarranted.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even small airlines believe they can be leaders in safety
. Small airlines can't hardly compete in these safety related areas.
I am not sure I agree with you, Even small airlines believe that they can be leaders in Aviation Safety.
Titan Airways receives Innovation in Safety Management Award
Last edited by BOMB-DOCTOR; 30th Sep 2012 at 07:19.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: North of CDG
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of my colleagues (well used to landing in BHX himself) was positioning back from NCE to BHX on that very flight, and told me the following:
- the approach was stable, although it looked a bit fast over the threshold
- long flare, touchdown abeam the fire station
- he expected quite a bit of reverse... which didn't come (autobrake only)
- as the aircraft neared the end of the runway, it started a turn but a vibration was felt (which he suspects may have been the nosewheel skidding on the wet runway)
- he then saw grass under the wings, and the 737 came to a stop
- only then were flaps retracted and APU started
The ambiance inside was reminiscent of a country fair! So much for Daily Mail
tales of "terrified passengers"... 
As far as the operator is concerned, some comments on this thread are borderline xenophobic and only serve to show some posters' ignorance about commercial aviation beyond their own borders. Why would Aurela be usafe just because they're from Lithuania? Are only UK AOC airlines safe then? The Cold War mentality is still alive and well apparently... My mate is a frequent flyer on this route, familiar with NCE approaches (where he is based), and told me, some time before the incident, that he was often impressed by how precisely Aurela crews would obviously hand-fly the VOR A 04L or visual 04L approach in NCE - not always the most straightforward of approaches.
This is not to say that regulatory supervision was up to scratch; it may well not have been - although there is no reason why flying a 24-year old 737-300 is any less safe than on Monarch's own 757s or A300-600Rs of roughly the same vintage.
As far as subcontracting goes, I'm sure Monarch did their homework as is mandatory. A few years ago, my outfit temporarily used an LY-reg freighter on one of our routes, and one of our captains jumpseated on a number of sectors to observe their operation, SOPs etc. before giving the go-ahead.
Regarding mentioning the actual operator on the booking, it's only fair (when not only to cover last-minute AOG) and I notice most legacy airlines on which I fly (AF, KLM, LH, LOT) do so on the boarding pass even when the flight is operated by a subsidiary.
Cheers
- the approach was stable, although it looked a bit fast over the threshold
- long flare, touchdown abeam the fire station
- he expected quite a bit of reverse... which didn't come (autobrake only)
- as the aircraft neared the end of the runway, it started a turn but a vibration was felt (which he suspects may have been the nosewheel skidding on the wet runway)
- he then saw grass under the wings, and the 737 came to a stop
- only then were flaps retracted and APU started
The ambiance inside was reminiscent of a country fair! So much for Daily Mail
tales of "terrified passengers"... As far as the operator is concerned, some comments on this thread are borderline xenophobic and only serve to show some posters' ignorance about commercial aviation beyond their own borders. Why would Aurela be usafe just because they're from Lithuania? Are only UK AOC airlines safe then? The Cold War mentality is still alive and well apparently... My mate is a frequent flyer on this route, familiar with NCE approaches (where he is based), and told me, some time before the incident, that he was often impressed by how precisely Aurela crews would obviously hand-fly the VOR A 04L or visual 04L approach in NCE - not always the most straightforward of approaches.
This is not to say that regulatory supervision was up to scratch; it may well not have been - although there is no reason why flying a 24-year old 737-300 is any less safe than on Monarch's own 757s or A300-600Rs of roughly the same vintage.
As far as subcontracting goes, I'm sure Monarch did their homework as is mandatory. A few years ago, my outfit temporarily used an LY-reg freighter on one of our routes, and one of our captains jumpseated on a number of sectors to observe their operation, SOPs etc. before giving the go-ahead.
Regarding mentioning the actual operator on the booking, it's only fair (when not only to cover last-minute AOG) and I notice most legacy airlines on which I fly (AF, KLM, LH, LOT) do so on the boarding pass even when the flight is operated by a subsidiary.
Cheers
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: manchester
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fouga Magister
I don't know Birmingham that well, can you tell me where the fire station is located; in particular with regard to the touch down zone markers on the runway in use ?
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know Birmingham that well, can you tell me where the fire station is located; in particular with regard to the touch down zone markers on the runway in use ?
Even so, this still leaves at least 4000 feet of runway before the end, which should be ample time to stop for an aircraft of this size given sufficient use of brakes and reverse.