Air Uganda, crew forgot to set flaps?
They'd obviously read on PPRuNe about the short-field technique (and I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here by calling it a technique) of deploying the flaps during the takeoff roll.
Move on, nothing to see...
Move on, nothing to see...
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Reminds me of the time I was a SLF on a Navy C-9 at NQX and they made a no flap takeoff! 
I don't know to this day whether or not that was an allowed configuration, but somehow, I doubt it was. At least they handled it well, but we were really moving at liftoff.
I don't know to this day whether or not that was an allowed configuration, but somehow, I doubt it was. At least they handled it well, but we were really moving at liftoff.
Based on that video clip, it was 15 seconds from beginning of forward movement to beginning of flaps beginning to lower.
I seem to recall a 727, Delta, in DFW, (Corrected to 1988!) that didn't lower flaps on takeoff ... flight ended in tears.
Delta 1141. One would hope that the lesson learned from that crash might be standard training fodder.
I seem to recall a 727, Delta, in DFW, (Corrected to 1988!) that didn't lower flaps on takeoff ... flight ended in tears.
Delta 1141. One would hope that the lesson learned from that crash might be standard training fodder.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 28th Aug 2012 at 19:24.
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Always surprises me that I have photos of two seperate US Airways B767-200s heading across the pond departing with no flaps !
Had I been on board I suspect I would have been bricking it!
Had I been on board I suspect I would have been bricking it!
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Always surprises me that I have photos of two seperate US Airways B767-200s heading across the pond departing with no flaps !
Had I been on board I suspect I would have been bricking it!
Had I been on board I suspect I would have been bricking it!
Here's an example on a takeoff out of PHL:
Likely flaps/slats were set when the takeoff configuration warning horn probably sounded as the thrust levers were set for TO thrust.
Re, ". . . nothing to see", that's exactly the outcome the system was designed for so there's a great deal to see. The system worked as designed and likely prevented another Spanair.
Re, ". . . nothing to see", that's exactly the outcome the system was designed for so there's a great deal to see. The system worked as designed and likely prevented another Spanair.
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What are the advantages of a flapless or reduced flap takeoff and when would you elect to carry one out?
Same for landing config?
Same for landing config?
Last edited by orion1210; 28th Aug 2012 at 20:57.
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Likely flaps/slats were set when the takeoff configuration warning horn probably sounded as the thrust levers were set for TO thrust.
However in these enlightened times with FOQA, FDM, ASAP and all the rest you are probably better off to do a low speed reject, find out for sure why the horn went off, put it in the logbook or not depending on the carrier and try it again after being sure you don't need a sign off. And do a mea culpa with all crewmembers on ASAP and NASA reports to CYA.
Moving the flap lever on the takeoff roll on a modern plane causes all heck to break loose with the warnings as these guys at Charlie West found out:
Pilots Engaged in Small Talk Before Jet Botched Takeoff - WSJ.com
The Captain moved the flap lever from flaps 8 to flaps 20 on the takeoff roll and botched a reject over V1, but was saved by the crunchy EMAS at the end of the mountaintop runway.
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We used to do flapless in the Middle East on the BN2 Islander as it gave a higher speed at rotation and we were slightly better off if we lost an engine. Nothing illegal about a flapless takeoff if it can be done safely, within the AFM and SOPs.
OK:
PJ
Thank you both. 
Actually the lesson learned from the DFW 727 was ...never rotate beyond normal takeoff attitude with 6000' of runway remaining. They were within 8 or so knots of 'flying', even no flap. (additional lesson was don't pull the takeoff warning CB to cross the 'zulu' bridge)
Likely flaps/slats were set when the takeoff configuration warning horn probably sounded as the thrust levers were set for TO thrust.
Re, ". . . nothing to see", that's exactly the outcome the system was designed for so there's a great deal to see.
Re, ". . . nothing to see", that's exactly the outcome the system was designed for so there's a great deal to see.
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This is obvious to most of us.
Here are just 5, of the many things that are vitally important, in attempting to get airborne.
F. Flaps.
A. Air-brakes
R. Correct Runway.
T. Trims set.
S. Speeds Bugged.
Regardless what is written on your company checklist, it only takes 30 seconds of farting around, to do this extra vital check. There are usually,no second chances. That extra 30 seconds of FARTS could save the day.
If we fly long enough and often enough, something vital will get missed during the DVA's
My 2 cents worth.
Here are just 5, of the many things that are vitally important, in attempting to get airborne.
F. Flaps.
A. Air-brakes
R. Correct Runway.
T. Trims set.
S. Speeds Bugged.
Regardless what is written on your company checklist, it only takes 30 seconds of farting around, to do this extra vital check. There are usually,no second chances. That extra 30 seconds of FARTS could save the day.
If we fly long enough and often enough, something vital will get missed during the DVA's
My 2 cents worth.
Last edited by screwballburling; 28th Aug 2012 at 21:38.