Air Uganda, crew forgot to set flaps?

[gcal]

BA 737 BCN/LGW a few years back - take off roll started then stopped, then the slats set and off we went.

General practice on the airlines I fly mostly BA/EZ is to set these before the start of taxi.

If one day I notice it hasn't been done should I be up out of my seat? I think so as it would be a departure from the norm.

How do we know that pax on the Spanair noticed this and did nothing? From what I read there were quite a few staff on board as well.

[dwshimoda]

gcal...

In certain circumstances, eg a contaminated taxi way, it is SOP in our company not to put the flaps out until cleared to line up, so it's not always as clear cut as you may think. Also, so TO flap settings may look like little or no flap is deployed, so I'd be very careful before you take action and make the cabin un-secure, thereby creating an RTO.

This has been covered in a previous thread.

[gcal]

I do know what the slats/flaps should look like on the aircraft I fly on most often, and, when it is normal practice to have them deployed.
If, in normal circumstances, we were approaching the hold and I could see no such settings, then that would make me very worried indeed.
Making a cabin insecure would be not very high on my list of concerns.

A Robin I flew occasionally for leisure some years ago had leading edge slats - they'd retract on the take off run, quite normal and harmless but still a tad disconcerting.

[Pugilistic Animus]

If I were a punter and observed such a thing; I'd immediately make the cabin very very insecure anyway I could!!!!
like the movie...I want to live!!!

[dwshimoda]

If, in normal circumstances, we were approaching the hold and I could see no such settings, then that would make me very worried indeed.
Making a cabin insecure would be not very high on my list of concerns.

So it's -5 celsius, snowing, and the taxi ways are contaminated. Approaching the hold (assuming you know it is the hold, as you can't see forward) you decide it's up to you to make the cabin unsecure? What about de / anti icing and then setting the flaps? And what if it's a Flap 5 take-off - or whatever the lowest setting is on your particular type? Perhaps even LE only, as you're sat at the back you don't see the TE move.

I'm not saying right or wrong, I'm just saying that there's often a lot more going on. If the aircraft started to accelerate with engines stable, then yes - stand up, run around, open a door, whatever. But until that point you don't know where you are or what's going on and are second guessing the crew, procedures, TO config horn, and a whole host of other items.

[Pugilistic Animus]

Sir I'm certain I'd be able to excercise discretion and have the discernment to recognize if a crew seriously F-ed up something

I'd know a problem if a saw one---I'm sure he meant the same although I see your point but I can recognize a reduced flap setting too--- but if the engines are spooled it may already be too late...the crew already has brain-in- the-butt syndrome... I'd have to assume that more bad decisions are to follow --as this present case aptly illustrates...anyway rather be safe than sorry...even if I were completely wrong!!! at least I wont be dead wrong...

Besides most SOPS set the flaps well before crossing the line--as we've learned through blood and tears that that way is generally the best...-

[Pugilistic Animus]

Just one last thing...pretend that the TO config warning doesn't exists---like TCAS is just a last resort...and can fail at the worst time...don't rely on that... pretend it's not a real thing and operate in accordance!!!

[Pugilistic Animus]

If no one found out and there was no monitoring, I'd say very few---that being said- it's one of those thing where the real answer is just don't duit!!!

edit: That's why they are monitored!

[FullWings]

We brief for an RTO and to vacate the runway after a config warning, the reason being that if you've forgotten something as important as flaps or speedbrakes, what ELSE have you done/not done that you're not aware of?

As far as reporting it, for us it's going to show up on the trace, so no option there. Better to cover yourself with a report...

[Pugilistic Animus]

And just to mention since deicing was was mentioned before... That's why most carriers have separate procedures and checklists for ground icing conditions...but even if they didn't those three critical items should be included in your personal checks...similar to verifying the RWY is correct and clear..it falls under the general rubric of airmanship irrespective of SOPs

[gcal]

'Sir I'm certain I'd be able to excercise discretion and have the discernment to recognize if a crew seriously F-ed up something'

Exactly and thank you...