Ryanair FR1919 incident in VLC 21 August 2012
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In my 5 years with the said Company I ensured this requirement was strictly complied with and am sure that my colleagues did likewise.
Well, today I watched 5 RYR aircrafts on the tarmac and I didnīt see any soul comming from the cockpit to check the fuelling. Actually in two of them pax leaving were waiting on the bus to be boarded meanwhile pax arriving were boarded on different buses.
Are you sure refuelling was actually taking place with passengers on board? Just because the bowser is connected does not mean that fuel is being pumped.
If crews are disobeying this regulation then they do so at their own peril since this aspect is monitored by SAFA inspectors and also Company personnel. Also as Captain I wouldn't like to be held liable in the case of fire and loss of life/injury.
As has been pointed out previously Ryanair are, to my knowledge, the only airline that requires crews to nominate a Refuelling Supervisor.
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In normal airlines, ground staff is trained for this, meaning recurrent training etc.
FR surprisingly doesn't want to pay for it...hence, flight crew has to do it....
The answer is ALWAYS they don't want to pay!
That's a theory which is very close to reality if not 100%
FR surprisingly doesn't want to pay for it...hence, flight crew has to do it....
The answer is ALWAYS they don't want to pay!
That's a theory which is very close to reality if not 100%
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Francistown refueling
Speaking of fork lifting barrels of fuel for over wing refueling years ago in Francistown, remember the DC4 which was refueled with JetA1, a plane load if mine workers destined for South Africa, soon after take off all 4 engines 'coked up', seized, pilots made to return to runway stalled in the turn, crashed. The one survivor, flight engineer dashed from cockpit to tail of aircraft before it struck.
Far as can tell it was never legally established who was at fault, but what were flight engineers duties ?
Far as can tell it was never legally established who was at fault, but what were flight engineers duties ?
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Yes, as pointed out earlier, It's a legal requirement in Europe that all de-refueling
while pax are on board must be supervised by a responsible person. Most other airlines have longer turn round times, and pay a little more to the agent, so the dispatcher will be responsible. In most places the agents will also have some agreement with the refueling company and they may take on the responsibility themselves. So it is down to two things, time and money. Quicker and cheaper to get the crew to add it to their long list of responsibilities.
I hope the captain wasn't on one of their lovely new Brookfield contracts as he may well get the bill for all of the disruption, and fuel!
while pax are on board must be supervised by a responsible person. Most other airlines have longer turn round times, and pay a little more to the agent, so the dispatcher will be responsible. In most places the agents will also have some agreement with the refueling company and they may take on the responsibility themselves. So it is down to two things, time and money. Quicker and cheaper to get the crew to add it to their long list of responsibilities.
I hope the captain wasn't on one of their lovely new Brookfield contracts as he may well get the bill for all of the disruption, and fuel!
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"Quicker and cheaper to get the crew to ........."
Cheaper yes, quicker NO. 25 min turnrounds, >3hr flight = >9000ltrs @ 750lt/hr = >12mins just to pump. Add on connect, disconnect, sign the receipt and climb upstairs = 20 mins. That's 5 mins left for post flt & pre flt procedures. Good game.
Cheaper yes, quicker NO. 25 min turnrounds, >3hr flight = >9000ltrs @ 750lt/hr = >12mins just to pump. Add on connect, disconnect, sign the receipt and climb upstairs = 20 mins. That's 5 mins left for post flt & pre flt procedures. Good game.
Cheaper yes, quicker NO. 25 min turnrounds, >3hr flight = >9000ltrs @ 750lt/hr = >12mins just to pump. Add on connect, disconnect, sign the receipt and climb upstairs = 20 mins. That's 5 mins left for post flt & pre flt procedures. Good game.
All a question of time and motion - if you get your skates on them some (if not all if the bowser arrives a bit late) of the preflight preparation and briefing can be done before pumping starts. PM goes out to do walkround, plugs in headset etc. and watches refuelling but also keeps eagle eye out for when all pax are off - when they are nip up to the flightdeck to complete brief/preparation etc whilst watching for approaching departing pax - when sighted nip out again to finish refuel supervision and sign receipt etc.
Yes it keeps you on your toes and is not ideal in terms of a relaxed environment but it is possible to do if everything is going for you and anyway if it's anywhere near a full load both ways it's likely there will be some other reason for delay other than refuel supervision!
Not saying I like the concept of 25 minutes though!
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I remember a few years back the Deputy C.P. producing a sheet of paper (no doubt for the benefit of the I.A.A) which showed how the time was divided second by second on a 25min turn-around. It was a work of art (or was it comedy? ) FMC loading 3min4sec , walkround 4min18 sec etc etc. If anyone still has it, they should post it here (or perhaps in Jet Blast on the Friday Joke thread)
I remember asking at the time where was the allowance for having a wazz? or was I just supposed to lift my leg against the nose-gear whilst doing the fuelling supervision (multi-tasking Eh , fuelling & defuelling simultaneously)
The repercussions of needing an early morning constitutional were unthinkable, I never could find the delay-code for "taking a dump"
I remember asking at the time where was the allowance for having a wazz? or was I just supposed to lift my leg against the nose-gear whilst doing the fuelling supervision (multi-tasking Eh , fuelling & defuelling simultaneously)
The repercussions of needing an early morning constitutional were unthinkable, I never could find the delay-code for "taking a dump"
The repercussions of needing an early morning constitutional were unthinkable, I never could find the delay-code for "taking a dump"
When I worked as a railway signaller we could delay trains for a "personal comfort break"!! (To get to the washroom you had to leave the signal box and go to the adjacent hut)
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Anyone have that memo from cowboy McK? Anyone read his recent memo stating all crew meals in ovenbags must be sealed by cable ties! Comedy genius but god help us all if he ever gets CP.
RYR crew are meant to do the RFS. It's a common reminder from the company. I'm in a base that commonly has 4hr plus flights. That's 15000lts uplift generally at anywhere between 500lts to 750lts per min. On a 25 min turnaround that was designed when RYRs average sector length was about 1hr to 1.5hrs.
RYR crew are meant to do the RFS. It's a common reminder from the company. I'm in a base that commonly has 4hr plus flights. That's 15000lts uplift generally at anywhere between 500lts to 750lts per min. On a 25 min turnaround that was designed when RYRs average sector length was about 1hr to 1.5hrs.
Last edited by McBruce; 25th Aug 2012 at 23:47.
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mmm Just booked FR again, maybe I will see for myself if there are two available exits for pax. One is normally closed if an airbridge is used, never seen the Cabin Crew 'stand by' the Aft doors. Still having watched FR pax face aft following the 'we will deplane through the forward door, via the airbridge............................ One wonders I booked i again
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Oh don't be silly. Why would it matter if the fault lay with the fuelling truck or the guy who connected the hose?
A glowing endorsement of an airlines maintenance procedures!
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SAFA use the rule that once the bowser is connected to the aircraft you are refuelling. If the bowser is pumping or not is not relevant.
