UAL Duty Time
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UAL Duty Time
I found this article this morning.
NaturalNews exclusive: UNITED-Continental airline pilots forced to fly with as little as 3 hours' sleep, 'worked until we drop'
Learn more: NaturalNews exclusive: UNITED-Continental airline pilots forced to fly with as little as 3 hours' sleep, 'worked until we drop'
Learn more: NaturalNews exclusive: UNITED-Continental airline pilots forced to fly with as little as 3 hours' sleep, 'worked until we drop'
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"United-Continental is flying us in violation of FAA legal requirements"
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Untied pilots dont have the balls to face up to bullying manglers ?
WTF ?, Do you know what "Captain" means ?. Obeying the law is YOUR responsibility. When in command EVERYTHING is your responsibility. The buck stops with you, your word is law.
Man up and do the job you are being paid to do.
WTF ?, Do you know what "Captain" means ?. Obeying the law is YOUR responsibility. When in command EVERYTHING is your responsibility. The buck stops with you, your word is law.
Man up and do the job you are being paid to do.
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If that quote was correct (unlikely, since it was from a 'fringe' journo) , the pilot concerned should have been charged with endangering the flight. Sounds very suspect to me.
What AG and GB said!
What AG and GB said!
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Sorry but if you knee-jerkers who like to explode before actually reading the article actually, you know, read the article you might have spotted that the language in said article is a little over dramatic. This leads me to believe that it might also be a little known journalistic trick of stretching the truth to excite all those people who like to get all wound up and explode over an article before actually reading it fully and separating fact from fiction.
First off I don't believe there are any pilots at UAL who would knowingly allow themselves to violate a FAR, rest related or otherwise, so read the article. You'll notice that the long quote describing a nine hour rest period doesn't actually mention anywhere that they broke any FARs does it? Yes it's the idiotic FAA 15-minutes-after-you-set-the-brake-you're-on-rest rule at it's worst but at the same time it doesn't actually break the FAR. He goes on to say he got six hours after that but doesn't specify what the actual rest period assigned was. It was likely a ten hour compensatory rest period but the pilot only managed to eek out six hours after all the shenannigans involved in putting the plane to bed, getting to the hotel, getting food etc etc.
Point is, although the rest rules are indeed idiotic, this article sounds more like overblown fear-mongering than a truly factual report and to my mind does more damage than good to the credibility of those working to advance our rest rules beyond the 1950's. It's disappointing to see the 'OMG MAN UP, DO YOUR JOB, GROW SOME BALLS' crowd are still around. You guys are the reason poor reporting exists in the first place.
First off I don't believe there are any pilots at UAL who would knowingly allow themselves to violate a FAR, rest related or otherwise, so read the article. You'll notice that the long quote describing a nine hour rest period doesn't actually mention anywhere that they broke any FARs does it? Yes it's the idiotic FAA 15-minutes-after-you-set-the-brake-you're-on-rest rule at it's worst but at the same time it doesn't actually break the FAR. He goes on to say he got six hours after that but doesn't specify what the actual rest period assigned was. It was likely a ten hour compensatory rest period but the pilot only managed to eek out six hours after all the shenannigans involved in putting the plane to bed, getting to the hotel, getting food etc etc.
Point is, although the rest rules are indeed idiotic, this article sounds more like overblown fear-mongering than a truly factual report and to my mind does more damage than good to the credibility of those working to advance our rest rules beyond the 1950's. It's disappointing to see the 'OMG MAN UP, DO YOUR JOB, GROW SOME BALLS' crowd are still around. You guys are the reason poor reporting exists in the first place.
Last edited by ViciousSquirrel; 13th Aug 2012 at 17:25.
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It is also worth remembering that 'rest' does not equate to 'sleep' but only to a period 'free of duty'. It can be spent in a crew bus if necessary, as long as min time in the hotel for 'rest' is observed..
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Heh, yup, 'rest' is a very subjective term over here. However 'min time for rest in the hotel' doesn't factor. A reduced rest of eight hours is a rest period of eight hours and how much time that actually gives the crew in a hotel doesn't factor into the FAAs calculations. A reduced rest period may result in you leaving the airport in the bus an hour after block in, arriving fifteen minutes or half an hour later and then having to get food, shower, do all your other stuff, sleep, get up, shower, have breakfast etc etc and then report back to the airport at the end of that rest period. Rest starts fifteen minutes after block-in and ends at report time at the airport the next morning. How much rest you actually manage to get in between isn't the FAAs problem. Fortunately some of us (I'm not UAL) have quite good fatigue policies which means that if it all gets too much we can call in without fear of repercussions.
Things are going to change but the idea that UAL pilots (and only UAL pilots?) are regularly allowing FARs to be broken, when it's something that we all track very carefully, is so moronic it makes my brain hurt.
Things are going to change but the idea that UAL pilots (and only UAL pilots?) are regularly allowing FARs to be broken, when it's something that we all track very carefully, is so moronic it makes my brain hurt.
Last edited by ViciousSquirrel; 13th Aug 2012 at 17:51.
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Well BOAC, in EU-OPS country each pilot has to get at least an 8 hour sleep period plus time for physiological needs, usually one hour before and one hour after said sleep (food, shower, brushing your teeth, shagging, checking into and out of the hotel, whatever). Of course the time in the crewbus can count as rest, but only if said 8 hours sleep time plus time for physiological needs is observed, if it isn't one is legally bound to extend the rest so that an eight hour sleep period can be achieved (OPS 1.1110 1.2)
But of course that is not valid in the USA, so that particular protection might not be there.
But of course that is not valid in the USA, so that particular protection might not be there.
