Jetliner Flies Directly Over White House
Just after the other pilot says "positive rate", you say "gear up" and a bright red fire handle light comes on with a loud bell and you momentarily forget to bank left: it could happen. Two trips ago, I pushed the throttles up to (flex) takeoff EPR of 2.00 and the left engine flames out (bad high-pressure fuel pump in P&W JT8D-15, not the shaft).
No matter what happens after the plane lifts off at runway 36 in DCA, the prohibited zone must be avoided, but many distractions could occur (nuisance windshear warning etc). For the laymen out there, we are all trained and re-trained to climb straight ahead with an engine failure or an engine fire light, other than Eagle, Colorado etc.
Speaking of DCA, I certainly wish US Airways a stable future and a committed, dedicated CEO.
No matter what happens after the plane lifts off at runway 36 in DCA, the prohibited zone must be avoided, but many distractions could occur (nuisance windshear warning etc). For the laymen out there, we are all trained and re-trained to climb straight ahead with an engine failure or an engine fire light, other than Eagle, Colorado etc.
Speaking of DCA, I certainly wish US Airways a stable future and a committed, dedicated CEO.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 6th Apr 2002 at 05:49.
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Seems to me there are two possible personality types for 411a.
One, the sky is falling we are all going to die and we should hide in the closet. If this is you I would suggest a looooong walk and carefull consideration of the idea that it does not make sense to shut down every operation that entails risk. This would include all of commercial aviation. I might remind you that we still fly directly over the top of manhatten without restriction. Quite frankly the prohhibitions on flight over the U.S. capital have always struck me as elitist and over protectionistic. If we must have greater security for any airport aren't we really saying that the security is lacking for everyone else? Either we secure our airways for the entire country or we don't.
Two, you work for the big blue airline that hubs out of IAD and see every departure out of DCA as a threat to your companies monopolistic marketing practices. In this case I say to you a hearty f--k you.
I really would like to know if you have a reasoned explanation for why we should shut down DCA when it is a perfectly servicable facility that generates untold dollars for the economy.
One, the sky is falling we are all going to die and we should hide in the closet. If this is you I would suggest a looooong walk and carefull consideration of the idea that it does not make sense to shut down every operation that entails risk. This would include all of commercial aviation. I might remind you that we still fly directly over the top of manhatten without restriction. Quite frankly the prohhibitions on flight over the U.S. capital have always struck me as elitist and over protectionistic. If we must have greater security for any airport aren't we really saying that the security is lacking for everyone else? Either we secure our airways for the entire country or we don't.
Two, you work for the big blue airline that hubs out of IAD and see every departure out of DCA as a threat to your companies monopolistic marketing practices. In this case I say to you a hearty f--k you.
I really would like to know if you have a reasoned explanation for why we should shut down DCA when it is a perfectly servicable facility that generates untold dollars for the economy.
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Ignition Override
I am surprised by your statement that climb straight ahead is the norm after engine fire/failure.
There are a host of airfields that require an emergency turn in the event of engine failure, with dire consequences if such a turn is not made. With a glass cockpit it is comparatively easy to set the nav display to show the emergency turn as well as the SID and many pilots do this.
I am surprised by your statement that climb straight ahead is the norm after engine fire/failure.
There are a host of airfields that require an emergency turn in the event of engine failure, with dire consequences if such a turn is not made. With a glass cockpit it is comparatively easy to set the nav display to show the emergency turn as well as the SID and many pilots do this.
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BigJETS wrote...
Now I don't want to turn this into a discussion of cockpit door policy but time and time again I see people making comments like this.
For years now, haven't FAA regulations stipulated that cockpit doors remain closed for during flight? So why do people persist in making "If the doors were closed then...." type arguments????
If cockpit doors are closed I think youve just cut the risk very low already. Creating even more drastic changes is silly.
For years now, haven't FAA regulations stipulated that cockpit doors remain closed for during flight? So why do people persist in making "If the doors were closed then...." type arguments????
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Ignition Override,
I remember there being a tall pointy obstacle straight out off of Runway 36 at DCA. I'm not sure of the SE climb rate for your aircraft, but you might want to re-think that straight-out fall-back for SE climbouts, especially if you ever plan to fly off Runway 04 at NCE (and I'm sure many other places).
I remember there being a tall pointy obstacle straight out off of Runway 36 at DCA. I'm not sure of the SE climb rate for your aircraft, but you might want to re-think that straight-out fall-back for SE climbouts, especially if you ever plan to fly off Runway 04 at NCE (and I'm sure many other places).
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>>Ignition Override
I am surprised by your statement that climb straight ahead is the norm after engine fire/failure. <<
In the U.S. it is pretty standard in the sim to request a straight out departure with an engine failure. This is a legacy of the old days and is also used so the instructor can show you a plot of your ground track so they can say whether you stayed within the ten degree heading standard. Of course, the clearance is "runway heading" not "runway track". I've tried to raise the B.S. flag on this before to no avail. Also, many carriers have in-house engine out procedures for some runways that allow them to takeoff at higher gross weights. In many cases ATC has no clue about these procedures and they are dubious at best in the real world IMHO.
In most of the sim checks I've had outside the U.S. you are expected to fly the SID or special engine out procedure after an engine failure while completing the checklist and requesting emergency handling.
I am surprised by your statement that climb straight ahead is the norm after engine fire/failure. <<
In the U.S. it is pretty standard in the sim to request a straight out departure with an engine failure. This is a legacy of the old days and is also used so the instructor can show you a plot of your ground track so they can say whether you stayed within the ten degree heading standard. Of course, the clearance is "runway heading" not "runway track". I've tried to raise the B.S. flag on this before to no avail. Also, many carriers have in-house engine out procedures for some runways that allow them to takeoff at higher gross weights. In many cases ATC has no clue about these procedures and they are dubious at best in the real world IMHO.
In most of the sim checks I've had outside the U.S. you are expected to fly the SID or special engine out procedure after an engine failure while completing the checklist and requesting emergency handling.
Last edited by Airbubba; 7th Apr 2002 at 17:46.
All of my simulator training (since '85) on DC-9s and later on 757s with engine failures/fires at V1, required straight out climbs ("tell tower we need straight ahead to about 3,000', declare an ..."), except for Eagle (EGE), Colorado, but the simulated airports for me were never at Washington National, from what I remember. With the exception of EGE using very complex VNAV/LNAV arrivals and departures (with only so much X-track deviation allowed), the emphasis has always been to 'nail down' the heading control, retract the gear and maintain a positive climb rate at V2 minimum, with clean up at 800' AGL or higher (EFCA), or 1,000' etc.
Maybe we should have had some simulated DCA departures.
Maybe we should have had some simulated DCA departures.
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not sure exactly what you mean Stagger...I just wanted to make the point that everyday there are new restrictions on the industry stemming from 9/11/02 . I think closing airports is drastic. I think if cockpits are un accessable in flight (ie. reinforced) then the chances of hijacks must be less since 9/11. Why must we create more and more restrictions (closing airports)? Its already suffocating. you have a problem with this thinking?
