Air Japan/ANA incident at NRT
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ANA incident at NRT
Japanese TV reports extremely hard landing of an Air Japan/ANA aircraft today at NRT. Incident was caught by airport security camera. Could not make out type, but looked eerily reminiscent of FedEx tragedy some years ago. Seemed like a steep descent, flared at last moment, touched down hard on main gear, lifted again, nose gear came down hard first before main gear again. Fuselage buckled as could be seen on close up. Glad, this time all ended without loss of life. We just went through a pretty severe typhoon, but conditions were not bad today. Sorry, can't find a link to the video. Assume it wil be all over the news tomorrow.
Last edited by EXLEFTSEAT; 23rd Jun 2012 at 06:11. Reason: Some posters insist it was not Air Japan but ANA.
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Here's the Yahoo Japan link to the video.
Here's the Yahoo Japan link to the video.
Last edited by TAC inop.; 20th Jun 2012 at 13:11.
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Maybe not so good
I couldn't get Mr Tac Inop's link to work (something about an advert for a Silverlink player), so thought I'd post the link above. I don't know if it works or not but I'll check it once I've posted this and leave it if it does.
The conditions were not bad today and certainly did not necessitate the 'snatch' seen on the video. There was a bit of windshear but only +/- 10 kts and the turbulence was nowhere near NRT's normal standard. I have no idea if this was a mainline or an AJX flight but I'm sure we'll know tomorrow. If it's AJX we'll have to all undergo extra training and flights to make sure we do things properly. If it's mainline, maybe no need
I couldn't get Mr Tac Inop's link to work (something about an advert for a Silverlink player), so thought I'd post the link above. I don't know if it works or not but I'll check it once I've posted this and leave it if it does.
The conditions were not bad today and certainly did not necessitate the 'snatch' seen on the video. There was a bit of windshear but only +/- 10 kts and the turbulence was nowhere near NRT's normal standard. I have no idea if this was a mainline or an AJX flight but I'm sure we'll know tomorrow. If it's AJX we'll have to all undergo extra training and flights to make sure we do things properly. If it's mainline, maybe no need
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The bit that the Youtube video misses, is the final approach just before landing. The other videos (although hard to watch because of buggy software) show that the aircraft actually came in with the nose slightly down, before pulling up at the last minute (just before the Youtube video starts).
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It's interesting to watch the sequence of events from the close-up footage (from around 0.23 on that Youtube video). Some time ago, particularly in relation to some MD11 accidents, such as NRT and RUH and the A320 incident at LIS, we had discussions about where the damage is caused in bounced landings, i.e. whether it was the initial impact or subsequent bounces.
Here, it seems that although the initial touchdown cause some damage (0.25), it was the first (0.26) and particularly the second (0.28) nosegear impacts which exacerbated the fuselage damage; note also that the nosegear comes down before the left MLG. It will be interesting to see what G-forces were experienced during these impacts.
Here, it seems that although the initial touchdown cause some damage (0.25), it was the first (0.26) and particularly the second (0.28) nosegear impacts which exacerbated the fuselage damage; note also that the nosegear comes down before the left MLG. It will be interesting to see what G-forces were experienced during these impacts.
Last edited by akerosid; 20th Jun 2012 at 19:18. Reason: Error
I remember this remark:- http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...ml#post4006742
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Aircraft involved is JA610A (delivered 2003) 9 years old. I assume it will be repaired and returned to service.
Boeing have done plenty of these repairs on the 763.
Here are a few.
1997 at KEWR: Alitalia I-DEIL. Aircraft was only a month old
The most recent one before today's. Royal Air Maroc CN-RNT 2009 at KJFK
Date, location and airline unknown. (boeing edited the titles out for their AERO article. Thanks Flying Torquewrench!)
Others include: LAB in 2004 at SLVI. And the Skyservice in 2005 at MDPC (5G landing IIRC
)
All the above went back into service.
Boeing have done plenty of these repairs on the 763.
Here are a few.
1997 at KEWR: Alitalia I-DEIL. Aircraft was only a month old
The most recent one before today's. Royal Air Maroc CN-RNT 2009 at KJFK
Date, location and airline unknown. (boeing edited the titles out for their AERO article. Thanks Flying Torquewrench!)
Others include: LAB in 2004 at SLVI. And the Skyservice in 2005 at MDPC (5G landing IIRC
)All the above went back into service.
Last edited by B-HKD; 20th Jun 2012 at 23:34.
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And don't forget recent First Choice 767 at Bristol last year. Boeing had to come and build a hangar to fix it on site which took months.
See report here,
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...BK%2005-12.pdf
Pictures on page 15.
Problem seems not to be the initial heavy main gear touchdown but the abnormally rapid derotatioanand subsequent heavy nose gear touchdown.
See report here,
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...BK%2005-12.pdf
Pictures on page 15.
Problem seems not to be the initial heavy main gear touchdown but the abnormally rapid derotatioanand subsequent heavy nose gear touchdown.
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Wasn't as simple as that. Landed at NRT around the same time. Probably just before the aircraft concerned.
Winds observed at 1000 ft agl were 240/58-72 kts, dropping down to 230/48 kts steady at 500 ft. And then there was a +/- 15 kts WS reported. On my observation it was more like +/- 20 kts windshear!
And the turbulence was huge. Moderate to moderate/severe turbulence REPORTED by 4 airplane before me from 500 ft to touchdown. I observed Moderate/Severe all the way down from 500 ft to touchdown.
And BTW the winds reported on ground were 220 to 250 at 28 gusting 44 kts. That's a direct crosswind for the runway in use-16R.
And the winds were spot on!
Airport should have been temporarily closed.
I'm not surprised this happened. Odds were that something like this was inevitably going to happen today.
Only the best pilots made it to terra firma today before 9 or 10 am local time.
After that the wind speed, windshear and turbulence were mildly acceptable.
Applause to all who landed at NRT before noon today.....
Winds observed at 1000 ft agl were 240/58-72 kts, dropping down to 230/48 kts steady at 500 ft. And then there was a +/- 15 kts WS reported. On my observation it was more like +/- 20 kts windshear!
And the turbulence was huge. Moderate to moderate/severe turbulence REPORTED by 4 airplane before me from 500 ft to touchdown. I observed Moderate/Severe all the way down from 500 ft to touchdown.
And BTW the winds reported on ground were 220 to 250 at 28 gusting 44 kts. That's a direct crosswind for the runway in use-16R.
And the winds were spot on!
Airport should have been temporarily closed.
I'm not surprised this happened. Odds were that something like this was inevitably going to happen today.
Only the best pilots made it to terra firma today before 9 or 10 am local time.
After that the wind speed, windshear and turbulence were mildly acceptable.
Applause to all who landed at NRT before noon today.....
Last edited by Germanflyer; 20th Jun 2012 at 19:37.
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Sky Jet is spot on.
This is a case of Press-On-itis. Come on folks, how many CRM refreshers have we sat through to know that it's our responsibility to speak up and do the sensible thing. If ATC haven't temporarily closed the airport and you get down to 500ft with winds and turbulence like that then surely a go-around is a reasonable course of action.
By that point you've looked at your fuel status....you know how much fat you've got to hold overhead before buggering off up the road to you Alternate.
This just seems a classic example of all the holes lineing up resulting in a bent airframe and about 300 personal injury claims!
2W2R
This is a case of Press-On-itis. Come on folks, how many CRM refreshers have we sat through to know that it's our responsibility to speak up and do the sensible thing. If ATC haven't temporarily closed the airport and you get down to 500ft with winds and turbulence like that then surely a go-around is a reasonable course of action.
By that point you've looked at your fuel status....you know how much fat you've got to hold overhead before buggering off up the road to you Alternate.
This just seems a classic example of all the holes lineing up resulting in a bent airframe and about 300 personal injury claims!
2W2R
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Hey guys it's not up to ATC to close the airport , the guy in the left seat has the final say to shoot the approach or not. Some a/c may have 30KT xwind limit some may have a 40kt limit.
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Offtopic,
B-HKD, the last photo is not an KLM aircraft. Yes, the colourscheme looks very similar but KLM does not have numbers that big on the nosegear doors. Neither has KLM got any widebodies (in 'new' livery) with no L2 (main entry door) before the wing.
B-HKD, the last photo is not an KLM aircraft. Yes, the colourscheme looks very similar but KLM does not have numbers that big on the nosegear doors. Neither has KLM got any widebodies (in 'new' livery) with no L2 (main entry door) before the wing.
Last edited by Flying Torquewrench; 20th Jun 2012 at 21:43.
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Sky Jet,
Almost ALL suitable alternates around NRT has similar weather and winds at that point in time. The typhoon was supposed to last out only until 2300z initially but carried on for a couple of hours more than expected. That sometimes spoils the plan for you!
Of course a go around is always an option. But where to my friend. It was a wide spread typhoon that out lived its expectancy.
Just a bad day I guess..
With a decent ending.
Almost ALL suitable alternates around NRT has similar weather and winds at that point in time. The typhoon was supposed to last out only until 2300z initially but carried on for a couple of hours more than expected. That sometimes spoils the plan for you!
Of course a go around is always an option. But where to my friend. It was a wide spread typhoon that out lived its expectancy.
Just a bad day I guess..
With a decent ending.
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filejw - exactly right. There does come a point where I personally think airport's should be closed but the ultimate responsibility remains, quite rightly, with the folks in the air.
Gestapo - so commercial pressure then.....if weather at the destination and destination alternates was all crap why did they get airborne in the first place and paint themselves into a tight spot?
Of course I'm sat here commenting from the comfort of my Marriott bed down route.......I guess well done for not killing anyone guys, but christ you weren't far off were you!
Night all,
2W2R
Gestapo - so commercial pressure then.....if weather at the destination and destination alternates was all crap why did they get airborne in the first place and paint themselves into a tight spot?
Of course I'm sat here commenting from the comfort of my Marriott bed down route.......I guess well done for not killing anyone guys, but christ you weren't far off were you!
Night all,
2W2R