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Old 15th May 2012, 21:26   #341 (permalink)
 
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Links to data recorder find articles

Using the URL of the photo posted by Kulverstukas as a guide, here are links to some articles in Indonesian at the same site recounting flight recorder discovery.

As there seems to be only one unit pictured, I speculate that they may only have found one of the FDR or CVR. Can anyone here affirm that this looks like one likely to have been mounted on the aircraft in question?

My copy of Google Chrome offers to translate these pages from Indonesian to English on loading. Failing that, you can put these URLs in to the URL box at translate.google.com or another translation site to get a crude but somewhat useful translation.

Black box discovery led (by) Lieutenant Taufik

Special Forces teams found the Black Box of Sukhoi

The black box was Found 100 meters from the Tail

Over seven hours up and down the mountain carrying the black box
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Old 15th May 2012, 21:53   #342 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Bader View Post
I'm sorry, folks, we do have bigots and bad spellers (not to mention forum trolls) here in Canada. My very sincere apologies to those Indonesians whom he insulted.
You are right I should say "sorry" to all Indonesians. I am indeed sorry that the well known corruption and incompetence at all levels of your countries civil regulatory agencies makes a flight in Indonesian airspace and especially aboard and Indonesian registered airliner, many more times dangerous than in North America.

I am also sorry that despite impressive engineering and manufacturing capabilities, and overall high pilot skill levels; Russian airline operations can not seem to shake the wild west cowboy culture of flight operations that has resulted in so many recent incidents and accidents.

Sometimes the truth is hurtful to say but until both jurisdictions face up to their systemic problems, more people will die in totally preventable accidents.....
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Old 15th May 2012, 22:10   #343 (permalink)
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RetiredF4

It's entirely possible they would push the boundaries of 'normal' hand flying, but in this case, as I mentioned, ahead and a tad to the right is the highest point, and that timeline at say, 230kts, is better counted in seconds rather than minutes.

It does seem the aircraft had attained, or nearly so, its requested alt. I just don't buy guys of this caliber making a fatal assumption that the valley would have an open end. I think they both thought they were to the side of the main mass.

(Obviously opposite sides, from respective view-points.)

There is still the possibility of a serious malfunction at a crucial moment.

We are reliant on black box information to get much further, and in particular, voice recordings, but this thread has already been of great value to those with a sincere desire to learn.
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Old 15th May 2012, 22:50   #344 (permalink)
 
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On another avenue of thought I wonder if there was a 3rd person in the flight deck on the jumpseat?

Someone from the customer airline perhaps and the 2 crew of the 100 were showing off and went too far.

Last edited by Blue-Footed Boobie; 15th May 2012 at 22:51.
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Old 15th May 2012, 22:55   #345 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
I prefer bright orange unopened
Well, as far as I can tell, you should be happy: the memory module is unopened...
FA2100 SSCVR, Aviation Partners Group
Disclaimer: I'm by no mean implying that the recorder recovered is an FA2100 model, nor a CVR (by opposition to a FDR). I don't know. But I know how those "double shaped" recorders are built:
Memory in the round part. Only recording electronics in the square part.

As for the colour, however... How important is this re: data contained?

Last edited by AlphaZuluRomeo; 16th May 2012 at 09:50. Reason: typo
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Old 15th May 2012, 23:05   #346 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaZuluRomeo
As for the colour, however... why is that of importance re: data contained?
Erm, because first off, it would be more likely to be intact if it was orange rather than a barbecued colour and secondly, it would less likely to have been tampered with if it was unopened.

I thought it was pretty straight forward, the message that was being stated.
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Old 15th May 2012, 23:24   #347 (permalink)
 
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possibly combined model

Following up on AlphaZuluRomeo's post: If, as might be possible, this is indeed from the FA2100 series, then it could either be the a single recorder, or a model combining CVR and DFDR function in a single unit. To my inexpert eye, the product photos for either of these are a pretty good match (given low resolution and extensive damage) and are indistinguishable, the one from the other. While the brochure photo for the FDR variant is a much longer box, this may just be the difference between 1/2 short and long ATR packaging options. Within this line it does not seem one can distinguish the function readily by external appearance.

FA2100 CVR
FA2100 combined CVR and FDR
FA2100 FDR
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Old 16th May 2012, 02:33   #348 (permalink)
 
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To give the proposed point of impact at 642'46.08"S 10644'7.38"E (Google Earth coordinates) further support, I want to show you two images for comparison:


The first image is a frame that I extracted from a video uploaded to YT by Sergey Dolya on May 11th (as it is a video recorded by a smartphone, the quality lacks quite a bit):




As you may already have figured out, the circle marks the point of impact that is also seen on multiple photos round the interwebs. The reason I chose a video to compare is because the complete fly-by scene is giving a quite good impression of how the landscape is formed - better than on still photos, especially regarding the location of the peak in the background that I marked with an arrow.



The second image is extracted from Google Earth and the references are marked in the same manner:




Line of sight in both images is 270. Note the bright patches at the peak in the background, and judge for yourselves (also take into account, that the height profile in GE has very limited resolution in that area, therefore a lot of detail is lost)...
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Old 16th May 2012, 09:51   #349 (permalink)
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mcgyvr81
Thank you for your post. That's astonishing.


The arrowed peak to the west is c 6,250 but the peak more or less ahead on their track is over 7,000. If they had been in the valley intentionally, it would appear they wanted to pass very near to that.


I'm getting a bad feeling about the wisdom of their seemingly planned excursion.

,
,
,
,

Last edited by Loose rivets; 17th May 2012 at 05:39.
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Old 16th May 2012, 10:05   #350 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_Hog View Post
Erm, because first off, it would be more likely to be intact if it was orange rather than a barbecued colour and secondly, it would less likely to have been tampered with if it was unopened.
1/ Such devices are built precisely to survive crashs (or at last, the data they contain). A fire that didn't melt the (unarmored) support parts seems pretty innocuous IMO, re: data preservation.
2/ As the memory module (which is the armored part, that should remain as intact as possible to protect the data) is unopened -as far as I can tell- the data have no chance to have been tampered with IMO.
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Old 16th May 2012, 11:10   #351 (permalink)
 
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ITAR-TASS





*CVR found - Look business newspaper
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Old 16th May 2012, 13:14   #352 (permalink)
 
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Mistery of parachute resolved?

1. Parachute on the left, aft door on the right, upside down


2. Aft door


3. Two partition walls at the end of saloon


4. Technical seat with parachute on the right, before partition wall


Technical seat with parachute (at 3:15)


Last edited by Kulverstukas; 17th May 2012 at 18:45. Reason: UPDATE with better photo
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Old 16th May 2012, 13:36   #353 (permalink)
 
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Kind of atmosphere and attitude that was prevailing on this demonstration tour.

Picture taken a few days prior to accident








My opinion is that minute details like these influence bigger accidents.

Yeah, this blogger was also at the centre of 'SAR operation' -- he decided not fly on the fatal day. Been reading his twittеr, he frequently used a phrase 'our SAR emergency centre', 'we will be first to be on crash site' -- portrayed himself almost as a member of rescue team... What a nonsense.

Last edited by UUUWZDZX; 16th May 2012 at 13:58.
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Old 16th May 2012, 13:42   #354 (permalink)
 
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I'm skeptical of accepting the suggestion that this was a scenic tour. The passengers weren't tourists out to take boring pictures of tree covered mountains that they see everyday throughout the country. The more likely scenario is that the pilot requested the altitude to demonstrate the capabilities of the aircraft.

question

would the pilot be likely handflying or on automatics of some sort after requesting the altitude clearance?
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Old 16th May 2012, 13:50   #355 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
would the pilot be likely handflying or on automatics of some sort after requesting the altitude clearance?
Shouldn't make any difference to the outcome. Presumably being an experienced demonstration pilot on the type he would equally skilful at hand flying or twiddling the knobs.
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Old 16th May 2012, 14:18   #356 (permalink)
 
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Hold your horses here!

These pictures depict the traditional ceremony of crossing the equator for the first time. This is no doubt in cruise and has absolutely nothing to do with the accident. It is an ancient maritime and aviation tradition.
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Old 16th May 2012, 14:24   #357 (permalink)
 
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Parachute mystery solved

Kulverstukas, thanks for solving the mystery of the parachute. That brings me to a couple more questions, though. What would be the role of the "technical seat" on a demo flight such as this? And, what would be the purpose of the parachute?
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Old 16th May 2012, 14:24   #358 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Hold your horses here!

These pictures depict the traditional ceremony of crossing the equator for the first time. This is no doubt in cruise and has absolutely nothing to do with the accident. It is an ancient maritime and aviation tradition.
More on this traditional ceremony: Line-crossing ceremony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 16th May 2012, 14:34   #359 (permalink)
 
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Carboon Bootpint, credit goes to allater from Forumavia - SSJ100 thread

As I understand, this plane (04) is still test one so it is equipped with some test equipment and seats for test engineers. If they test her close to the limits, crew should have some facilities for saving their lives if something goes wrong.

Last edited by Kulverstukas; 16th May 2012 at 15:30.
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Old 16th May 2012, 15:10   #360 (permalink)
 
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btw, does the terrain avoidance system have any predictive capability in a turn?

Because where the airplane is pointing and where it is going are 2 different things, sort of like the headlights on a car. Unless the car is an old Citroen which had headlights that swiveled left and right))
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