Belgian Onur Air pilot dies after falling onto apron
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Now at Home
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And to all of those "aviators" who are crying for implementing a SOP now so to avoid that someone steps out of the door, without having steps.
How $tupid must you be guys. What a rubi$$h
I know all of you will be unable to pilot an aircraft without having 1000's of SOPs - Right ?
Hopefully you have SOPs for your daily life also
How $tupid must you be guys. What a rubi$$h
I know all of you will be unable to pilot an aircraft without having 1000's of SOPs - Right ?
Hopefully you have SOPs for your daily life also
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eventhough the journalists are saying he was closing the door:
-We do not know if he was closing the door or not
-We do not know whether he knew or not that the stairs had been removed.
Some SOPs like "do not remove the steps without alerting the crew" could have made a difference that evening.
The journalists are also saying it was a passenger flight. NO it was a ferry flight (back from maintenance).
-We do not know if he was closing the door or not
-We do not know whether he knew or not that the stairs had been removed.
Some SOPs like "do not remove the steps without alerting the crew" could have made a difference that evening.
The journalists are also saying it was a passenger flight. NO it was a ferry flight (back from maintenance).
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: End of the Rainbow
Age: 79
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Amman - again
SAS Station Manager Mikelson also suffered fatal fall, approx. 1981-82. Air stairs had been removed from DC8 prior to him backing out of a/c front door, anticipating air stairs were still in place. Different a/p to current one at Amman - strange that similar accidents occur at same city location.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: FG central
Age: 53
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE Airbus a321]And to all of those "aviators" who are crying for implementing a SOP now so to avoid that someone steps out of the door, without having steps.
How $tupid must you be guys. What a rubi$$h
I know all of you will be unable to pilot an aircraft without having 1000's of SOPs - Right ?
Hopefully you have SOPs for your daily life also
[QUOTE]
SOP's aren't only for the people in white, crispy shirts.
SOP's are really useful in ground handling where staff turnover is high, due to poor pay, long hours and back of clock operations, where things need to be part of a routine lest they be forgotten.
If an SOP can help ensure a door is closed when I've moved away from an aircraft and take away that little hole in the cheese that could seriously injure or kill someone, why not have it and use it?
How $tupid must you be guys. What a rubi$$h
I know all of you will be unable to pilot an aircraft without having 1000's of SOPs - Right ?
Hopefully you have SOPs for your daily life also
[QUOTE]SOP's aren't only for the people in white, crispy shirts.
SOP's are really useful in ground handling where staff turnover is high, due to poor pay, long hours and back of clock operations, where things need to be part of a routine lest they be forgotten.
If an SOP can help ensure a door is closed when I've moved away from an aircraft and take away that little hole in the cheese that could seriously injure or kill someone, why not have it and use it?
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Dunedin, NZ
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turkish DGCA
DGCA, DHMI and other governmental offices belonging to MoT, have implemented changes recently to the duty & flight time limitations, as well as the mandatory minimum rest periods for airlines under a TC reg in Turkey.
I.E.- 2+2+1+1+1 days off a month; 36hrs/week; 210hrs/mo Duty, etc makes it clear that this chaps are in deplorable working conditions, no time for lifestyle, friends or family. Perhaps the most frustrating issue is lack of freedom of expression, from journalists been jailed, to other ex-military members who participated on the Ergenekon issue being arrested. One thing remains clear, anyone willing to join a Turkish carrier as an airman is facing an infamous regime, and a proud society that to this day denies atrocities of the past.
I.E.- 2+2+1+1+1 days off a month; 36hrs/week; 210hrs/mo Duty, etc makes it clear that this chaps are in deplorable working conditions, no time for lifestyle, friends or family. Perhaps the most frustrating issue is lack of freedom of expression, from journalists been jailed, to other ex-military members who participated on the Ergenekon issue being arrested. One thing remains clear, anyone willing to join a Turkish carrier as an airman is facing an infamous regime, and a proud society that to this day denies atrocities of the past.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Maastricht, Netherlands
Age: 61
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few months ago I had the opportunity to meet Olivier Mester when he took his English Language Examination in Maastricht.
He was one of the nicest people I met and he talked passionately about his job with Onur Air, flying the A300-600 and he showed a true interest in other people. He served the aviation community in many areas and I am sure that his laughter and wit will be missed dearly.
He was one of the nicest people I met and he talked passionately about his job with Onur Air, flying the A300-600 and he showed a true interest in other people. He served the aviation community in many areas and I am sure that his laughter and wit will be missed dearly.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ruritania
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a layman reading this, and while my sympathies go to friends and families of all victims, I can't help wondering where H&S fits in with all these SOPs, or are you guys left to sort it all out for yourselves? I'd have thought they would have had a field day, really, and I'd certainly assumed that the dayglo jackets airline staff having to wear was all their work, the same way I heaved a huge sigh of relief when finally the lunchtime minders in the primary school playground opposite from my house started wearing the same, thus preventing for sure an even worse fate befalling them than falling out of an aircraft.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Choroni, sometimes
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems to be some really bad luck with TC-OAG
Accident: Onur A306 at Jeddah on May 1st 2012, landed without nose gear
Accident: Onur A306 at Jeddah on May 1st 2012, landed without nose gear
And to all of those "aviators" who are crying for implementing a SOP now so to avoid that someone steps out of the door, without having steps.
SOP on Big Airways. No door shall be opened or closed without an appropriate stand/steps in place.
If the caterers or steps move away and leave the door open. Get them back, then shut the door.
Do not open the door until the steps/caterers etc are in position.
By the way that little strap that so many feel is a safe way of protecting personel from the open doorway is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
Last edited by TURIN; 31st May 2012 at 11:30.
Take the sop a bit further; Door shall only be open or closed by ground staff.
That way, the stairs/steps/bridge must be in place anytime the door is moved. Subtle, but very effective.
If it was a non-revenue flight, it pays to refer to some u.s. research that indicates a third of fatalities on all part 121 operations occur on non-revenue operations.
The point being, we tend to let our guard down when its not a scheduled flight..
That way, the stairs/steps/bridge must be in place anytime the door is moved. Subtle, but very effective.
If it was a non-revenue flight, it pays to refer to some u.s. research that indicates a third of fatalities on all part 121 operations occur on non-revenue operations.
The point being, we tend to let our guard down when its not a scheduled flight..
Some operators use door nets rather than straps, not only in the hangar. Good idea if you ask me.
At my operator we have the 'no door to be left open w/o steps/truck' rule but it is frequently ignored (and duly reported) A lot comes down to the training and 'care factor' of the ground staff on duty.
I have also heard of a 'paper procedure' at certain operators whereby steps cannot be removed without a signed slip from the cabin crew onboard. I would guess these are the operators that have suffered similar accidents and have learnt from the experience.
SOP is there for a reason, especially when you're dead tired after an ultra-long-haul flight and following them is the only thing between you and a hard landing on the pavement! Being trained properly at my first airline to always hold the handle definitely saved me at a second- wind took the door as we were closing up and I am certain I'd have gone out had I not been following the SOP. Colleagues now laugh at me because I always hold on whenever near the door but you'd be crazy not to at the heights we're talking... imagine going up a 3 story building, standing on the parapet and not holding onto something- just asking for a problem.
(Note, I am in no way saying this is what the poor pilot did/did not do, just adding to the discussion on door SOP)
At my operator we have the 'no door to be left open w/o steps/truck' rule but it is frequently ignored (and duly reported) A lot comes down to the training and 'care factor' of the ground staff on duty.
I have also heard of a 'paper procedure' at certain operators whereby steps cannot be removed without a signed slip from the cabin crew onboard. I would guess these are the operators that have suffered similar accidents and have learnt from the experience.
SOP is there for a reason, especially when you're dead tired after an ultra-long-haul flight and following them is the only thing between you and a hard landing on the pavement! Being trained properly at my first airline to always hold the handle definitely saved me at a second- wind took the door as we were closing up and I am certain I'd have gone out had I not been following the SOP. Colleagues now laugh at me because I always hold on whenever near the door but you'd be crazy not to at the heights we're talking... imagine going up a 3 story building, standing on the parapet and not holding onto something- just asking for a problem.
(Note, I am in no way saying this is what the poor pilot did/did not do, just adding to the discussion on door SOP)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Close Call
This happenned to me a number of years ago. I had just brought in B727 from YUL to YYZ. A very bad ice storm had just gone through. Much clear on the decent into YYZ. The airfield, rwy's, taxiways and ramps were a complete skating rink. This wouldn't be complete if we hadn't had the winds blowing close to 40 kt.s. As Captain after a very long day including the divert to YUL coming in from BGI, I was the last off the aircraft. Maintenance hadn't shown yet (Hockey game on the TV). I was about step from the Aircraft onto the jetway, if I hadn't have looked down just then, I would have fallen to the ice covered ramp. The aircraft was light, no pax, bags and little fuel; the wind pushed the aircraft away from the jetway with the ice on the ramp even though we were chalked. A good 3 ft. gap existed between the aircraft and the jetway. So even at the gate, you have to have your wits about you.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Does anyone know if this Pilot was working at Delta Air Transport in Antwerp 1991/93 (was the time for me), same name at least.
Damn Shame, so easy to happen, so hard to prevent
Damn Shame, so easy to happen, so hard to prevent
Last edited by greybeard; 3rd Jun 2012 at 10:50.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cloud9
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not too long ago, I was looking after B747 Classic Freighters at LGG. Following a night arrival, I noticed that the Door 1 stairs were incorrectly positioned & requested that they be re-positioned. Knowing that the crew were still upstairs, I told the handling guys that I would go & stand in the open doorway to prevent an accident of the type we are discussing here.
As I lifted my leg to climb into the doorway, the stairs shot out from under me, powered by a frustrated Belgique F1 driver & his small tug. My lifted foot hit the fuselage below sill level, & I was going down. My guardian angel got my hands onto the floor-mounted side rail just inside the door in the nick of time; the stairs were gone in a flash. I'm now dangling in free space above the concrete, but with the strength born of fear I pulled myself up into the jet & lay there gasping like a beached whale.
My subsequent one-way chat with the handling guys required the extremeties of my vocabulary & would make a Trooper blush. I was well bruised in the legs & not walking well for a week or so ( I was just about to start my rostered-off time! ).
Lessons learned:
Even after 40yrs in this business, I can still get bitten.
I will never go up a stairs again that is hooked up to a tug.
I was bloody lucky not to get badly hurt/totalled.
I must expect the unexpected from some Ramp staff.
Stay safe out there; more people die on Airport Ramps than in the mining industry, I believe............
As I lifted my leg to climb into the doorway, the stairs shot out from under me, powered by a frustrated Belgique F1 driver & his small tug. My lifted foot hit the fuselage below sill level, & I was going down. My guardian angel got my hands onto the floor-mounted side rail just inside the door in the nick of time; the stairs were gone in a flash. I'm now dangling in free space above the concrete, but with the strength born of fear I pulled myself up into the jet & lay there gasping like a beached whale.
My subsequent one-way chat with the handling guys required the extremeties of my vocabulary & would make a Trooper blush. I was well bruised in the legs & not walking well for a week or so ( I was just about to start my rostered-off time! ).
Lessons learned:
Even after 40yrs in this business, I can still get bitten.
I will never go up a stairs again that is hooked up to a tug.
I was bloody lucky not to get badly hurt/totalled.
I must expect the unexpected from some Ramp staff.
Stay safe out there; more people die on Airport Ramps than in the mining industry, I believe............
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Glasgow
Age: 40
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In 2006, according to the State Work Safety Supervision Administration, 4,749 Chinese coal miners were killed in thousands of blasts, floods, and other accidents. For example, a gas explosion at the Nanshan Colliery killed 24 people on November 13, 2006; the mine was operating without any safety license and the Xinhua News Agency claimed the cause was incorrect usage of explosives. However, the 2006 rate was 20.1% less than 2005 despite an 8.1% increase in production.[8]
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cloud9
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for that RR, I think I'm quoting from a report which excluded the Asian/African mining industry, for the reasons you show in your post. I know that the mining industry has a very strong safety culture in countries outside of such regions.
Funnily enough, as I was dangling out of the door by my newly-manicured fingernails, I was actually contemplating such statistics............
Funnily enough, as I was dangling out of the door by my newly-manicured fingernails, I was actually contemplating such statistics............