Take off with snow on wing
Originally Posted by shy talk
I thought the thing was meant to Auger in if one was reckless enough to attempt a T/O with a teensy fraction of what these guys had on their wing?
US Air 405, and the similar Air Ontario 1363 accident were both F28s.
The more "well known" Air Florida flight 90, a 737 which crashed into the Potomac river was more an issue of incorrectly set engine thrust (due icing of the P2T2 engine sensors) than ice on the wing.
It wouldn't surprise me if there are a few airline managers that have seen this video and are thinking to themselves, "why have we been wasting all that money on deicing fluid for all these years?"
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it's difficult to asses if it's just powder snow or snow with ice underneath
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My god.
If I was a passenger I wouldn't even have let us enter the runway.
Is this in Russia? I recently read a report Russia is the most dangerous place for aviation, I now see why!
If I was a passenger I wouldn't even have let us enter the runway.
Is this in Russia? I recently read a report Russia is the most dangerous place for aviation, I now see why!
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If you see all the taxiways and aprons that are clear of snow, this means it wasn't a recent snow shower. It must have been sitting on the wings for hours before take off. Indeed no telling how much of it was frozen to the surface.
But it did take off quite nicely
But it did take off quite nicely
Originally Posted by SLF
What if the flight was empty/positioning...?
Just a thought - SLF
Just a thought - SLF
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No, presumably the tolerances to ice are higher on an empty aircraft...?
Snow on the wing is a no go and most (russians?) pilots prefere to exit an aircraft alive.
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A question. Now that this is on the net, undoubtedly the flight number and ergo the crew will be made public in due course. So, will they face charges for this? And if so what would they be?
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I mentioned this on the other thread but it bears repeating:-
Belavia Flight 1834 was a scheduled international passenger flight from Yerevan, Armenia, to Minsk, Belarus, operated by Belavia. On the morning of February 14, 2008, the Bombardier Canadair Regional Jet carrying 18 passengers and 3 crew crashed and burst into flames shortly after take off from Zvartnots International Airport near the capital city of Yerevan, in the country of Armenia.
The jet hit its left wing on the runway during takeoff, crashed to the ground, flipped over, and came to rest inverted near the runway. All passengers and crew managed to escape the aircraft before it erupted into flames, partly due to the timely response of the fire and rescue crews.
Eyewitness reports stated that the aircraft banked sharply to the left immediately after rotation when it was only 3 to 5 meters airborne, clipped its left wing on the runway, crashed to the ground and rolled many times until coming to a stop inverted near the runway
Initial Findings
Initial speculation pointed to icing on the wings which caused the left wing to stall upon lift-off.
Icing conditions were reported at the airport during the crash, and the CRJs are very prone to wing contamination and icing since they do not have any leading edge devices.[9] The Russian Interstate Aviation Committee (MAK) heading the investigation, and the Russian investigators initially stated that the aircraft began to roll left immediately after liftoff, inverting before crashing
Belavia Flight 1834 was a scheduled international passenger flight from Yerevan, Armenia, to Minsk, Belarus, operated by Belavia. On the morning of February 14, 2008, the Bombardier Canadair Regional Jet carrying 18 passengers and 3 crew crashed and burst into flames shortly after take off from Zvartnots International Airport near the capital city of Yerevan, in the country of Armenia.
The jet hit its left wing on the runway during takeoff, crashed to the ground, flipped over, and came to rest inverted near the runway. All passengers and crew managed to escape the aircraft before it erupted into flames, partly due to the timely response of the fire and rescue crews.
Eyewitness reports stated that the aircraft banked sharply to the left immediately after rotation when it was only 3 to 5 meters airborne, clipped its left wing on the runway, crashed to the ground and rolled many times until coming to a stop inverted near the runway
Initial Findings
Initial speculation pointed to icing on the wings which caused the left wing to stall upon lift-off.
Icing conditions were reported at the airport during the crash, and the CRJs are very prone to wing contamination and icing since they do not have any leading edge devices.[9] The Russian Interstate Aviation Committee (MAK) heading the investigation, and the Russian investigators initially stated that the aircraft began to roll left immediately after liftoff, inverting before crashing
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http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/4...ml#post7125790
And BTW the response from Aeroflot's PR dept was exactly like that — there were no problem, the snow got blown off the wings, nothing to worry about, and the safety of our passengers is our number one priority. So all's good.
And BTW the response from Aeroflot's PR dept was exactly like that — there were no problem, the snow got blown off the wings, nothing to worry about, and the safety of our passengers is our number one priority. So all's good.
Interesting comments but most of you seem to discount the vast experience Aeroflot has in Winter Ops, and in any case such practices used to be quite commonplace in North America.
When we first operated the 747-400 through Mirabel we routinely operated in Arctic conditions and IF the weather was around -10 C with snow, I think BA were about the only airline to remove the considerable accumulations of very powdery snow from the wings. The locals couldn't understand this as it cost $4000 to de-ice a 747, spending the first 10minutes turning de-icing fluid into slush on the wings. (CAA Rules. thou shalt not depart with any snow present) The very winterwise Quebecois chums used to depart in a postive snowstorm ( sans le degivreur) .
In the bad old days at Kennedy ( early 70's) when queues for T/O could exceed three hours, I can remember burning 6000Kgs in a Classic waiting for T/O ( I think we started out as No 80) - Met conditions Temp -12C and light snow and EVERY aircraft in the queue must have had about an inch and a half of fine dry snow by the time it reached the holding point. Not one pulled out of the line to de-ice - the majority big US registered airlines. Fairly new in the RHS and my sector, I was re-assured by my hairy arsed colleagues that it wouldn't be a problem. There was a very significant delay on rotate before the a/c leaped into the air like a frightened horse. Not much conversation before Nantucket... well we didn't know about health and safety in those days... so what was there to talk about
When we first operated the 747-400 through Mirabel we routinely operated in Arctic conditions and IF the weather was around -10 C with snow, I think BA were about the only airline to remove the considerable accumulations of very powdery snow from the wings. The locals couldn't understand this as it cost $4000 to de-ice a 747, spending the first 10minutes turning de-icing fluid into slush on the wings. (CAA Rules. thou shalt not depart with any snow present) The very winterwise Quebecois chums used to depart in a postive snowstorm ( sans le degivreur) .
In the bad old days at Kennedy ( early 70's) when queues for T/O could exceed three hours, I can remember burning 6000Kgs in a Classic waiting for T/O ( I think we started out as No 80) - Met conditions Temp -12C and light snow and EVERY aircraft in the queue must have had about an inch and a half of fine dry snow by the time it reached the holding point. Not one pulled out of the line to de-ice - the majority big US registered airlines. Fairly new in the RHS and my sector, I was re-assured by my hairy arsed colleagues that it wouldn't be a problem. There was a very significant delay on rotate before the a/c leaped into the air like a frightened horse. Not much conversation before Nantucket... well we didn't know about health and safety in those days... so what was there to talk about
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AEROFLOT ARE GUILTY!
I don't know about this one but having been on 2 Aeroflot 320 flights taking off with ice and frost on the wings in the last 12 months I can assure you my ar5e muscles have never worked so hard!
I hate flying them with a passion but my company like it cos they're cheap. So is my life it seems.
I don't know about this one but having been on 2 Aeroflot 320 flights taking off with ice and frost on the wings in the last 12 months I can assure you my ar5e muscles have never worked so hard!
I hate flying them with a passion but my company like it cos they're cheap. So is my life it seems.