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Captain 'subdued' aboard JetBlue flight

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Captain 'subdued' aboard JetBlue flight

Old 30th Mar 2012, 05:08
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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@SaturnV - your post above is ambiguous - it can be read as either Osbon or his father was piloting the crashed aircraft.

Just to clarfy - it was the father who was piloting, and he (the father/pilot) and 1 passenger were killed in the crash.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 07:19
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Big deal

Daft thread now.

The CM1 went spare, the FO did the right thing, and the cabin crew managed the situation engaging help from able-bodied male passengers.

And now the skipper is being asessed medically.

All in order.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 09:44
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Wonder if someone slipped something into his Cheerios...
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 11:42
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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heard that he had been known to 'hug his pillow' thinking of marie .waiting for him in Amaaaarillllo
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 12:34
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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I'm curious - who is the PIC when an off-duty captain goes up to assist in a situation like this?
I was curious about this too. The JetBlue FAQ on the incident says the FO was PIC throughout.

What would have happened if there hadn’t been an off-duty Captain on the flight to step in?
Both Captains and First Officers are trained to fly our aircraft. Our First Officer was the pilot in command yesterday (in control of the aircraft from takeoff to landing) and the off-duty Captain stepped in to help.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 14:18
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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The most unfortunate thing here is that the Captain became ill whilst operating an aircraft. If he had his medical episode on the ground (in pre-flight or whereever) it would be much, much less of an issue. I only want to make these comments;
1. I hope he gets the medical help and support he needs
2. Well done to the FO/PF for realising there was a danger to the aircraft and dealing with it professionally.
3. I work in a high stress environment (a trading floor in an investment bank). I've seen people break down VERY rapidly and VERY completely. I've also been lucky enough to work with them again, many months later, when they have had their medical condition stablisied and the underlying factors of the break down (root cause) corrected.

There but for the grace of god go I. Some posters in this thread need a very long hard look at their attitude to a fellow human.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 15:16
  #147 (permalink)  

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CherokeeDriver

Thank you for that. One of the more sensible and helpful posts on this thread.

With the benefit of hindsight it will be interesting to see if his crew felt his pre-flight behaviour offered a serious clue that things were far from normal or whether it was all within the bounds of 'he was having a bad day' - such as we all have from time to time

Apart from the tragedy of the man himself I suspect that the event overall may provide positive lessons for crews that will be taught in the future in the CRM context.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 16:32
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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CherokeeDriver: The most unfortunate thing here is that the Captain became ill whilst operating an aircraft. If he had his medical episode on the ground (in pre-flight or whereever) it would be much, much less of an issue. I only want to make these comments;
1. I hope he gets the medical help and support he needs
2. Well done to the FO/PF for realising there was a danger to the aircraft and dealing with it professionally.
3. I work in a high stress environment (a trading floor in an investment bank). I've seen people break down VERY rapidly and VERY completely. I've also been lucky enough to work with them again, many months later, when they have had their medical condition stablisied and the underlying factors of the break down (root cause) corrected.

There but for the grace of god go I. Some posters in this thread need a very long hard look at their attitude to a fellow human.
The reason that you don't understand the attitude of some posters on this forum is because you're not a professional pilot, as the name of the forum states. An airliner cockpit at 35,000 feet isn't a financial trading floor. While the consequences of a breakdown on the trading floor can be fatal financially, the consequences of a breakdown inflight can be fatal for hundreds of humans. Even doctors only kill one at a time - not hundreds. Professional airline pilots, especially captains, hold themselves and their peers to a standard unknown by those who have never shouldered such responsibility. At my company, which has an up or out policy, there have literally been suicides during captain upgrades. And even after making it through, some elect to bid back to F/O rather than accept the pressure that comes from sitting there at night over an ocean with hundreds onboard; thinking of all the possible things that can go catastrophically wrong, knowing that for many of them there is no procedure in the book, realizing that legally and morally you're the final authority for what will be done to deal with anything that happens, accepting that you will be held ultimately responsible for any outcome, and having the self-confidence to believe that no matter what happens you'll manage to get it right - not horribly wrong. At the end of every flying day as I lay in bed, I would replay in my mind every single thing that happened in the pit that day (on the ground and in the air), analyze anything that wasn't done absolutely perfectly, and decide how I would do it better the next time. I consider myself extremely lucky to have never had any incidents during my career, because in the back of your mind you always know that some things can happen that are simply beyond any human being's ability to cope. Even having been retired for a few years now, I can clearly remember every single thing that I really screwed up in my career and despite the fact that I was able to successfully manage them, I still consider them personal failures on my part. That's the hard look at the attitude toward the fellow humans in the back of the jet that's required.

Last edited by Murexway; 30th Mar 2012 at 16:51.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 16:43
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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At some point, there is an inescapable risk. Perhaps some here may think better of getting a bit too far (in public) into cockpit issues. It's a business, after all.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 17:04
  #150 (permalink)  
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there have literally been suicides during captain upgrades. And even after making it through, some elect to bid back to F/O rather than accept the pressure that comes from sitting there at night over an ocean with hundreds onboard; thinking of all the possible things that can go catastrophically wrong, knowing that for many of them there is no procedure in the book, realizing that legally and morally you're the final authority for what will be done to deal with anything that happens, accepting that you will be held ultimately responsible for any outcome, and having the self-confidence to believe that no matter what happens you'll manage to get it right - not horribly wrong.
- from where I see it, some pilots in that company are probably in the wrong job. Worrying indeed. Which airline please?
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 18:23
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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John Farley:
With the benefit of hindsight it will be interesting to see if his crew felt his pre-flight behaviour offered a serious clue that things were far from normal or whether it was all within the bounds of 'he was having a bad day' - such as we all have from time to time
Apparently not.

According to the affidavit, they did not notice anything until after the climb-out.
The crew members told me that the captain, Clayton F. Osbon, showed up at JFK later than he should have for the flight and missed the crew briefing. Initially, he did not exhibit any bizarre behavior.
The flight departed thirty minutes late (because he was late?). The Captain made some odd statements, handed control to the FO and then continued talking in a way that the FO said was not coherent.

The JetBlue update said that it was 3 1/2 hours into the flight when he left the cockpit and the FO called for the off-duty pilot to come forward.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 19:01
  #152 (permalink)  

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akaSylvia

Thanks. I did read the Sherrif's report yesterday and as you point out it specifically states the Captain exhibited no bizarre behaviour prior to departure.

My reference to the benefit of hindsight had in mind rather more subtle clues than what might be described as 'bizarre behaviour'. For example how did he react to his lateness and missing the crew brief? Apologetically or otherwise? If the latter I might with hindsight consider that worth considering in the full analysis.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 01:23
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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BOAC: from where I see it, some pilots in that company are probably in the wrong job.
In any large company there are people who may be in the wrong job.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 02:50
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Just a lay observation here. A wide range of "herbal" products, diet products, and various nutritional and other "supplements" are sold in the United States. By law, most are exempt from government regulation or oversight. Many products or key ingredients are imported from overseas. When laboratory analysis has been done, it occasionally reveals unexpected and even dangerous ingredients, contaminants, drugs, or potential interactions.

Some substances (whether ingredients or contaminants) can significantly affect a person's mental state, inducing symptoms such as hallucinations, paranoia, disoriented thinking, intense religious experiences, and more.

It can be especially disorienting if the person doesn't realize what is happening to him and why (as opposed to someone who knowingly ingests an hallucinogenic substance).

Until more is known, I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the Captain could have ingested some such product, and experienced a bad reaction to it. (Unless there is a categorical ban on pilots taking herbal and other supplements, of which I am unaware).

Even if it did not trigger this incident, perhaps something to keep in the back of your mind if you or a colleague ever experience such a situation.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 08:38
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Crash axe?

I raised a question months ago about what to do if your colleague went nuts while flying and the door being closed. But I really didn´t get very much out of the answers. This question seems even more adequate after this incident.

What would you do?

Once again. My heart bleeds for the poor man...
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 21:14
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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John: I see what you mean. At first blush, it seems the FO isn't able to name anything specific but I agree, it sure would be useful if there were more subtle signs that we could learn to watch for.
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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 01:47
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Any word on Mr. Dowd's career prior to JetBlue? That name is naggingly familiar.
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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 18:26
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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I read where he had flown a Gulfstream for NetJets, but can't attest to the accuracy of the media's reports..

Looks like he's now out of the hospital...

JetBlue pilot in jail pending hearing | Amarillo Globe-News
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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 18:41
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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ahh, the good old USA "Justice" system

the guy clearly has some serious mental health issues, so they slap him in jail. Bravo.What a backward country.
I never cease to be amazed at the depths to which the US justice system can plunge to. Mind you, a country with one of the highest crime rates on the planet and 10 times the number of people in jail per capita than any other country, clearly has a messed up system.
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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 19:38
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'Bomb' meltdown pilot appears in court

Updated 6:47 AM Tuesday Apr 3, 2012




Emergency workers tend to Clayton Osbon, a JetBlue captain that had a 'medical situation' during a Las Vegas-bound flight from JFK International airport.


A JetBlue Airways captain charged with disrupting a Las Vegas-bound flight after he left the cockpit screaming about religion and terrorists should remain in federal custody without bond, prosecutors have told a judge.
Clayton Osbon smiled at his wife and JetBlue employees who watched his first federal court appearance, but did not speak other than to tell the judge he understood his rights and the charges against him.
Osbon, 49, was not asked to enter a plea. A judge is expected to rule on the bond issue on Thursday local time.
Osbon has remained in Texas since the plane he was piloting last Tuesday was forced to make an emergency landing there following his bizarre unraveling. Passengers wrestled him to the ground after witnesses said he ran through the cabin yelling about Jesus and al-Qaida, and then restrained him with seat belt extenders.
He was taken to an Amarillo hospital for a medical evaluation and remained there for several days. It was not immediately clear where he was being held.

Prosecutors have charged Osbon with interfering with a flight crew. Under federal law, a conviction can bring up to 20 years in prison.
Osbon wore street clothes in the courtroom but his feet were shackled. His attorney, Dean Roper, declined to comment after the hearing.
Osbon's wife, Connye Osbon, released a statement through the airline saying the in-flight outburst "wasn't intentionally violent toward anyone" and asked the media to respect their family's privacy.
Longtime friends and fellow pilots have said they don't recall Clayton Osbon having any previous mental or health problems.
Investigators say Osbon told his co-pilot "things just don't matter" and incoherently rambled about religion shortly after the flight departed from New York. His behavior became more erratic as the flight wore on, prosecutors say, and ended with a tense struggle in the cabin after Osbon abruptly left the cockpit. A flight attendant's ribs were bruised while trying to restrain Osbon, but no one on board was seriously hurt.
-AP
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