Captain 'subdued' aboard JetBlue flight
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@BobM2 - [Not a pilot] It seems easier to believe that someone trying to disguise a suicide would switch the selector to a reasonable position at the last moment. That is, one would not leave the Crash-this-airplane selector in the 'On' position if they were trying to make it look like an accident.
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fotoguzzi:
Don't know whether the father was mentally ill but he was either grossly incompetent and never properly checked out in the Baron or he had wanton disregard for fuel management (to the point of criminal negligence) on a fairly simple light twin.
Was the engineer mentally ill just like the father in the present thread?
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@SSR; I've been a JetBlue pilot for five years now, and we undoubtedly have our 5 percenters. That having been said, I'm sure my colleagues whom are ex-Blue Angels, former astronauts, and former USAir, AMR, DL, etc. pilots appreciate you painting with such a broad brush.
Sully is undoubtedly a shining beacon for our profession. I will refrain from citing hull loss statistics and such, but I truly hope you and your family enjoy your flights on USAir.
Sully is undoubtedly a shining beacon for our profession. I will refrain from citing hull loss statistics and such, but I truly hope you and your family enjoy your flights on USAir.
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@Sillypeoples, I would submit that your dancing on the grave of the Alaska pilots that fought to keep flying their jet all the way down indicates you would have been a poor fit there.
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aewanabe:
That was a sad and horrific accident. But, I’ve often wondered why they didn’t land at Lindbergh, or probably better yet Mirimar.
@Sillypeoples, I would submit thatyour dancing on the grave of the Alaska pilots that fought to keep flying theirjet all the way down indicates you would have been a poor fit there.
That was a sad and horrific accident. But, I’ve often wondered why they didn’t land at Lindbergh, or probably better yet Mirimar.
Messing up the fuel selectors in the Baron crash falls well within the parameters of human error - and is far from the only case where engine(s) quit with fuel in the tanks somewhere and the crew did not figure out why before terra firma got in the way.
If all of those poor pilots had previously been herded into the loony bin, the psychs would have been collecting so many false positives that anybody volunteering to fly anything would have been instantly committed.
Airplanes do crash regularly because of various forms of human error -- including how engineers program various black boxes to make airplanes "pilotproof".
If all of those poor pilots had previously been herded into the loony bin, the psychs would have been collecting so many false positives that anybody volunteering to fly anything would have been instantly committed.
Airplanes do crash regularly because of various forms of human error -- including how engineers program various black boxes to make airplanes "pilotproof".
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aterpster...often wondered the same thing...and the idea of having a mechanic on the ground trying to help troubleshoot in the air has its limits.
trying too hard to do the company a favor...?
the big thing was not following manufacturer's reccomendations on how to care for the plane
trying too hard to do the company a favor...?
the big thing was not following manufacturer's reccomendations on how to care for the plane
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RatherBeFlying:
This was not a crew, it was a single pilot flying a light twin with a somewhat difficult fuel system, but straight-forward for those competent in the airplane.
The lateral imbalance must have been quite significant well before the right engine "yelled Mayday."
Messing up the fuel selectors in the Baron crash falls well within the parameters of human error - and is far from the only case where engine(s) quit with fuel in the tanks somewhere and the crew did not figure out why before terra firma got in the way.
The lateral imbalance must have been quite significant well before the right engine "yelled Mayday."
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sevenstroke:
The crew was competent, of that there is no doubt. But, they were trying too hard to follow a lousy company script.
That maintenance boss should have been shot off a sub torpedo into the same waters.
aterpster...often wondered the same thing...and the idea of having a mechanic on the ground trying to help troubleshoot in the air has its limits.
trying too hard to do the company a favor...?
the big thing was not following manufacturer's reccomendations on how to care for the plane
trying too hard to do the company a favor...?
the big thing was not following manufacturer's reccomendations on how to care for the plane
That maintenance boss should have been shot off a sub torpedo into the same waters.
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Captain Key may well have been dead before PI hit the ground. He was certainly affected by his coronary artery tear and probably incapacitated during the final few minutes of PI flight.
However, I do understand your point. Both Capt Osbon and Key had illnesses which became critical to their performance during flight (to state the bloomin obvious) Both must have had some disease progression before the condition became critical. Key certainly did, as he had had a previous cardiac event caused by underlying atherosclerosis. Osbon probably had some mental affectation prior to him boarding the aircraft.
The moot point is whether Capt Key or Osbon actually understood they were ill and thought to seek medical help. Also it may not have been reasonably foreseeable to either captain that their illnesses were overcoming them.
Medically speaking, the two captains are in two different eras. With Capt Key, his condition may well have not been spotted by the most diligent cardiologist of the time. Today it would be likely that the potential results of atherosclerosis would have been identified (he would equally have been at risk of a stroke) and the previous healed MI would have been identified. Mental health care has also improved dramatically.
As for prosecution - why not? Court is the place to establish the material evidence of Osbon's mental capacity and his awareness of his mental illness. The facts (and expert opinions) will be revealed there and judged upon. If he is innocent under the law then the verdict will vindicate him, even if now he is mentally well. Of course Key is dead so no trial would be possible.
As for the captain who had a teddy bear hanging in the cockpit - may not exactly be SOP but if his rationale is that it helps to get female crew to sleep with him then that is a perfectly solid rationale. Nothing in the slightest bit irrational about that. If, however, he had said that the teddy bear gave him clearly audible commands to fly his aircraft then there would be a cause for concern.
However, I do understand your point. Both Capt Osbon and Key had illnesses which became critical to their performance during flight (to state the bloomin obvious) Both must have had some disease progression before the condition became critical. Key certainly did, as he had had a previous cardiac event caused by underlying atherosclerosis. Osbon probably had some mental affectation prior to him boarding the aircraft.
The moot point is whether Capt Key or Osbon actually understood they were ill and thought to seek medical help. Also it may not have been reasonably foreseeable to either captain that their illnesses were overcoming them.
Medically speaking, the two captains are in two different eras. With Capt Key, his condition may well have not been spotted by the most diligent cardiologist of the time. Today it would be likely that the potential results of atherosclerosis would have been identified (he would equally have been at risk of a stroke) and the previous healed MI would have been identified. Mental health care has also improved dramatically.
As for prosecution - why not? Court is the place to establish the material evidence of Osbon's mental capacity and his awareness of his mental illness. The facts (and expert opinions) will be revealed there and judged upon. If he is innocent under the law then the verdict will vindicate him, even if now he is mentally well. Of course Key is dead so no trial would be possible.
As for the captain who had a teddy bear hanging in the cockpit - may not exactly be SOP but if his rationale is that it helps to get female crew to sleep with him then that is a perfectly solid rationale. Nothing in the slightest bit irrational about that. If, however, he had said that the teddy bear gave him clearly audible commands to fly his aircraft then there would be a cause for concern.
Reuters newsfeed via Yahoo:
--Bill
SAN ANTONIO (Reuters) - A Texas judge on Tuesday found a JetBlue pilot insane and not guilty of interfering with a flight after his bizarre behavior forced an emergency landing in March.
Clayton Osbon, 49, had been charged with interference with a flight crew and could have faced up to 20 years in prison.
Court documents show U.S. District Judge Mary Lou Robinson in Amarillo, Texas, received a report from a psychological examination that concluded, "at the time of the commission of the offense, the defendant appeared to suffer from a severe mental disease or defect that impaired his ability to appreciate the nature, quality, or wrongfulness of his behavior."
All parties, including the prosecutors, agreed to the report.
JetBlue pilot who disrupted flight declared insane, not guilty - Yahoo! News
Clayton Osbon, 49, had been charged with interference with a flight crew and could have faced up to 20 years in prison.
Court documents show U.S. District Judge Mary Lou Robinson in Amarillo, Texas, received a report from a psychological examination that concluded, "at the time of the commission of the offense, the defendant appeared to suffer from a severe mental disease or defect that impaired his ability to appreciate the nature, quality, or wrongfulness of his behavior."
All parties, including the prosecutors, agreed to the report.
JetBlue pilot who disrupted flight declared insane, not guilty - Yahoo! News
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It's the right finding and sentence, but it would probably not be an option for a crazy passenger or flight attendant who did similar. Be that as it may, I wish Capt. Osbon well.
-drl
-drl
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Had a TGU crew landing at a short runway at TGU, Honduras have maintenance talk them into using manual override to select landing flaps and landed because normal flaps were inop. Yes, they landed but it was illegal because go around was compromised. Maintenance might know how to make something operate but is it legal? Think about it before you do it.
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The verdict sounds eminently humane and sensible. It's inconceivable he'll fly again, but he's rightly been spared jail and I hope Capt Osbon and his family will continue to be supported in finding a way to move forward.
from yahoo news link:
Shouldn't they be congratulating the copilot for saving the situation and showing the high standards of JetBlue crew?
Several passengers on board the flight have filed suit against JetBlue for gross negligence, saying the airline should have known that he was unfit for duty as a pilot.
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Pilot Not Guilty, for reasons of Insanity
Court finds Clayton Osbon not guilty because of insanity.
BBC News - 'Insanity' clears JetBlue 'bomb' pilot Clayton Osbon
BBC News - 'Insanity' clears JetBlue 'bomb' pilot Clayton Osbon
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JetBlue spokeswoman Alison Croyle said Tuesday that the airline "continues to support the Osbon family; we don't have further comment as we let the judicial process play out. We can confirm he is still employed, on inactive status, with JetBlue," she said.
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SummerLightning:
Lockdown in the typical U.S. mental hospital is a terrible experience. And, unlike prison, he doesn't get out until some nasty people say he can get out.
The verdict sounds eminently humane and sensible. It's inconceivable he'll fly again, but he's rightly been spared jail and I hope Capt Osbon and his family will continue to be supported in finding a way to move forward.