Air Blue crash was caused by Captain
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No, you won't
You can always take the aircraft away from your captain but you usually will lose your job in the process. I did it once in a 4 engine corporate jet landing on a wet runway at night with a strong crosswind on a short runway.
When we landed he thanked me. I was surprised.
And to constantly go: "please sir, turn left sir" is clearly missing the point of being an FO.
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You can always take the aircraft away from your captain but you usually will lose your job in the process. I did it once in a 4 engine corporate jet landing on a wet runway at night with a strong crosswind on a short runway.
When we landed he thanked me. I was surprised
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Machinbird,
its not how you imagine it.
I have flown both the B737NG and the A320.
On the 737, in order to select Heading, you need to push a button that is below the "round" Heading Select Knob to engage HDG mode and get out of LNAV. I doubt it is different on the B747. I have not flown the B747 but looking at the MCP it appears to be almost identical. On the 737NG you could not push the HDG knob, you could only twist/rotate it. To engage LNAV you need to press the LNAV button.
On the Airbus you need to pull the Heading Select Knob to engage HDG. You push it to engage Managed Nav.
In my opinion, you can not confuse the two methods of selecting Heading.
its not how you imagine it.
I have flown both the B737NG and the A320.
On the 737, in order to select Heading, you need to push a button that is below the "round" Heading Select Knob to engage HDG mode and get out of LNAV. I doubt it is different on the B747. I have not flown the B747 but looking at the MCP it appears to be almost identical. On the 737NG you could not push the HDG knob, you could only twist/rotate it. To engage LNAV you need to press the LNAV button.
On the Airbus you need to pull the Heading Select Knob to engage HDG. You push it to engage Managed Nav.
In my opinion, you can not confuse the two methods of selecting Heading.
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Originally Posted by Peter Fox
In my opinion, you can not confuse the two methods of selecting Heading.
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The report is now officially posted at CAA site http://www.caapakistan.com.pk/downlo...20-ABQ-202.pdf
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Hi Maajam
Hope the fog of jet lag has worn off. Check out the the Air Crash Investigations video on the Air Inter airbus crash in Germany. There are some striking similarities with the Air Blue crash.
Questions which arose were:
-Auto Pilot malfunction.
-Automation and human interface confusion
-Traps in automation
-Air Traffic control miscommunication
Hope the fog of jet lag has worn off. Check out the the Air Crash Investigations video on the Air Inter airbus crash in Germany. There are some striking similarities with the Air Blue crash.
Questions which arose were:
-Auto Pilot malfunction.
-Automation and human interface confusion
-Traps in automation
-Air Traffic control miscommunication
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Not just the Captains son but now also the victims families are not satisfied with the report Airblue crash probe report vexes victims
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Captain's son and victims families, while they may well have justifiable grievances over the composition of the board, will have a hard time trying to prove it was not a crew error. Map shift, autopilot or nav system malfunction be it as it may, there can be no way the Captain was maintaining 'visual contact with the runway environment' and thus was improperly conducting the manoeuvre he was supposed to be flying.
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Kal, it wasn't heroism, it was self preservation that made me take the airplane away and go around. I knew I would be fired when I did it but it never happened. My ego doesn't require proving I am better. I just wanted to live another day. Sliding off the end of a wet runway doing everything wrong didn't fit into my future plans of my aviation career. I am retired now so don't have to deal with it.
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Apparently BEA and Airbus found CAA description of the Captain's behaviour unsavoury, quoting info from a poster at PIA fan site forum.
"The following comment on a draft report was provided by BEA and Airbus on the final draft of the report:
"However, some sections of the draft report use harsh words to describe the crew’s behaviour.
Annex 13, paragraph 3.1 states that the objective of the investigation is not to apportion blame
or liability. This is also reminded in the chapter 2 of your draft report. Therefore, the BEA
suggests re-wording some parts of the draft final in order to soften the criticism towards the
crew."
Sadly, it would appear that this comment did not make into the final version as the report definitively apportions blame on the crew."
"The following comment on a draft report was provided by BEA and Airbus on the final draft of the report:
"However, some sections of the draft report use harsh words to describe the crew’s behaviour.
Annex 13, paragraph 3.1 states that the objective of the investigation is not to apportion blame
or liability. This is also reminded in the chapter 2 of your draft report. Therefore, the BEA
suggests re-wording some parts of the draft final in order to soften the criticism towards the
crew."
Sadly, it would appear that this comment did not make into the final version as the report definitively apportions blame on the crew."
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Apparently BEA and Airbus found CAA description of the Captain's behaviour unsavoury, quoting info from a poster at PIA fan site forum.
"The following comment on a draft report was provided by BEA and Airbus on the final draft of the report:
"However, some sections of the draft report use harsh words to describe the crew’s behaviour.
Annex 13, paragraph 3.1 states that the objective of the investigation is not to apportion blame
or liability. This is also reminded in the chapter 2 of your draft report. Therefore, the BEA
suggests re-wording some parts of the draft final in order to soften the criticism towards the
crew."
Sadly, it would appear that this comment did not make into the final version as the report definitively apportions blame on the crew."
"The following comment on a draft report was provided by BEA and Airbus on the final draft of the report:
"However, some sections of the draft report use harsh words to describe the crew’s behaviour.
Annex 13, paragraph 3.1 states that the objective of the investigation is not to apportion blame
or liability. This is also reminded in the chapter 2 of your draft report. Therefore, the BEA
suggests re-wording some parts of the draft final in order to soften the criticism towards the
crew."
Sadly, it would appear that this comment did not make into the final version as the report definitively apportions blame on the crew."
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Please tell me it's not true that the Airbus always turns the shortest way to the Heading bug!
... and the good old MD11 showed a dotted line on the PFD to indicate which direction it will turn!
Just why wouldn't the two other engineering teams not adopt such a great feature??
"We always strive for the utmost safety" is a commonly read statement.
But it never passes engineers pride, it seems.
Never admit that the competition got it better ........
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... and the good old MD11 showed a dotted line on the PFD to indicate which direction it will turn!...
Yes, that's really helpful feature we don't have on A nor B nowadays.
But in Airblue situation I believe captain was under so high stress and frustration while turning heading knob so even such feature wouldn't help him to realize the picture IMHO
Yes, that's really helpful feature we don't have on A nor B nowadays.
But in Airblue situation I believe captain was under so high stress and frustration while turning heading knob so even such feature wouldn't help him to realize the picture IMHO
But in Airblue situation I believe captain was under so high stress and frustration while turning heading knob so even such feature wouldn't help him to realize the picture IMHO
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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No.TMF is right. Since the Captain appeared to be unaware of his pitch or bank angles or position much of the time I doubt a wiggly little line on the EHSI would have even been noticed. Let's get real here.
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The captain might have missed it, but the possibility remains that he might have not.
Any help in a scr@wed-up situation is not only welcome, but imperative, if you really are serious about accident preventing.
Such a feature exists and is simple and cheap to reprogram.
Why not go for it?
(Scared of lawsuits I guess .... lawyers seem to be one of the greater enemies of airline safety improvements)
Any help in a scr@wed-up situation is not only welcome, but imperative, if you really are serious about accident preventing.
Such a feature exists and is simple and cheap to reprogram.
Why not go for it?
(Scared of lawsuits I guess .... lawyers seem to be one of the greater enemies of airline safety improvements)