Two BA pilots questioned about mobile phone incident
FX Guru
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Greenwich
Age: 67
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the size of modern mobile phones is significantly smaller from mobile cell-phones from 10-20 years ago.
I doubt that's enough to cause structural failure to a modern plane, but all the same, I'd rather not be on the flight it was detonated on.
Of course the chances of this happening are all very remote, but as the recent very scary ink cartridge devices showed there are some evil and fertile minds out there.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aren't we getting way off topic. Surely the real question is why some jobsworth wouldn't collect the phone from the a/c at the holding point.
Costing airline a shed load of money and inconveniencing a planeload of passengers.
The airline industry should provide a service to passengers. And the "industry" includes airport staff/management, ATC and the airlines.
This airport fell well below the service standard needed.
Costing airline a shed load of money and inconveniencing a planeload of passengers.
The airline industry should provide a service to passengers. And the "industry" includes airport staff/management, ATC and the airlines.
This airport fell well below the service standard needed.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 5,197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aren't we getting way off topic.
Surely the real question is why some jobsworth wouldn't collect the phone from the a/c at the holding point.
Costing airline a shed load of money and inconveniencing a planeload of passengers.
Surely the real question is why some jobsworth wouldn't collect the phone from the a/c at the holding point.
Costing airline a shed load of money and inconveniencing a planeload of passengers.
Captain v jobsworth
I'll use my initiative and solve the problem v I'll use my initiative to turn a minor problem into a major problem.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wayne Manor
Posts: 1,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely the real question is why some jobsworth wouldn't collect the phone from the a/c at the holding point.
Costing airline a shed load of money and inconveniencing a planeload of passengers.
The airline industry should provide a service to passengers. And the "industry" includes airport staff/management, ATC and the airlines.
This airport fell well below the service standard needed.
Costing airline a shed load of money and inconveniencing a planeload of passengers.
The airline industry should provide a service to passengers. And the "industry" includes airport staff/management, ATC and the airlines.
This airport fell well below the service standard needed.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SW London
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4 pages in and views from both ends of the spectrum conveyed ..... lets all calm down, have a little reality check and put the following in perspective.
1./ In the past 10 years terrorists have shown an increasing desire to commit suicide as part of the terrorist act so they can get their 40 virgins than before.
2./ The no passenger, no bag policy idea makes sense to a degree but in reality we all know it won't deter the most ardent jihadist.
3./ The jingoist, middle class redtop stirring up the story and its track record.
4./ Captain makes what seems like a reasonable and common sense laden request based on the circumstances and the fact his delay would result in further inconveniences for all current and subsequent passengers using that particular aircraft that day.
5./ BA have to recognise why the flightdeck did what they did, saving the company money, causing as little disruption for the passengers and future schedule, isn't that the thing airlines love to hear when you are being interviewed.
6./ ATC/EDI Airport (however I'd argue all decision makers) don't like it when unique requests come through and tend to opt for the risk free, I'll cover my own back/I'm not taking initiative in the chance it may come back to bite me in the arse response.
7./ If they shut down the engines while in sequence (as conveyed by the poster who's son was on the flight), the APU's would have been running, I would argue no chance of the phone being sucked/blown anywhere critical rendering that argument null and void.
8./ If they backtracked the runway and returned to the apron, would they connect a jetway or dropped the phone out the window there as there was a greater proximity of a mechanic or other apron staff?
9./ If so, why not send a guy out in the Follow Me landrover to do the same at the holding point, same result however less hassle for the passengers, airline and airport, maybe not by the book but it would ultimately get a better result for all concerned.
10./ Ask any of the passengers for their opinion, I suspect it would be unanimous.
11./ This in effect is a total non-event of a story, however in the environment we currently live in, they unfortunately become so.
1./ In the past 10 years terrorists have shown an increasing desire to commit suicide as part of the terrorist act so they can get their 40 virgins than before.
2./ The no passenger, no bag policy idea makes sense to a degree but in reality we all know it won't deter the most ardent jihadist.
3./ The jingoist, middle class redtop stirring up the story and its track record.
4./ Captain makes what seems like a reasonable and common sense laden request based on the circumstances and the fact his delay would result in further inconveniences for all current and subsequent passengers using that particular aircraft that day.
5./ BA have to recognise why the flightdeck did what they did, saving the company money, causing as little disruption for the passengers and future schedule, isn't that the thing airlines love to hear when you are being interviewed.
6./ ATC/EDI Airport (however I'd argue all decision makers) don't like it when unique requests come through and tend to opt for the risk free, I'll cover my own back/I'm not taking initiative in the chance it may come back to bite me in the arse response.
7./ If they shut down the engines while in sequence (as conveyed by the poster who's son was on the flight), the APU's would have been running, I would argue no chance of the phone being sucked/blown anywhere critical rendering that argument null and void.
8./ If they backtracked the runway and returned to the apron, would they connect a jetway or dropped the phone out the window there as there was a greater proximity of a mechanic or other apron staff?
9./ If so, why not send a guy out in the Follow Me landrover to do the same at the holding point, same result however less hassle for the passengers, airline and airport, maybe not by the book but it would ultimately get a better result for all concerned.
10./ Ask any of the passengers for their opinion, I suspect it would be unanimous.
11./ This in effect is a total non-event of a story, however in the environment we currently live in, they unfortunately become so.
Is it not a case of looking at the risk assessment and who is responsible?
On board the aircraft the Captain is responsible for carrying out the risk assessment. Outside the aircraft, within the confines of the aierodrome it is the responsibility of the Airport Manager. The Police can override either if they wish, as they may have information not available to the others.
Now assuming the Captain did indeed carry out a risk assessment based on his company criteria etc, it would appear he did not consider it a viable threat. He then decided to pass the item into the responsibility of Edinburgh Airport PLC.
Now whether ATC contacted the Airport duty manager or not is unknown, but it was his call to accept the item, it was not up to ATC to refuse to send an ops vehicle as they do not control ops, nor do they control security, both come under the authority of the Airport manager.Was he consulted? As for the Police involvement, were they called by someone or did they respond on their own initiative.
Until we find out some more details we are speculating.
On board the aircraft the Captain is responsible for carrying out the risk assessment. Outside the aircraft, within the confines of the aierodrome it is the responsibility of the Airport Manager. The Police can override either if they wish, as they may have information not available to the others.
Now assuming the Captain did indeed carry out a risk assessment based on his company criteria etc, it would appear he did not consider it a viable threat. He then decided to pass the item into the responsibility of Edinburgh Airport PLC.
Now whether ATC contacted the Airport duty manager or not is unknown, but it was his call to accept the item, it was not up to ATC to refuse to send an ops vehicle as they do not control ops, nor do they control security, both come under the authority of the Airport manager.Was he consulted? As for the Police involvement, were they called by someone or did they respond on their own initiative.
Until we find out some more details we are speculating.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is high time we had a new offence on the statute books in the UK. It should be called "wasting police time" and be reserved for officers of the law who demonstrate a disregard for common bloody sense.
How this became a matter for the police is beyond me. The Stasi must have moved from East Germany.
How this became a matter for the police is beyond me. The Stasi must have moved from East Germany.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
So next time; the transmission from the flight deck should be along the lines of:
"My engines are shut down. Send an ops vehicle to pick up the phone from the flight deck window then I'll move. No I won't return to stand."
"My engines are shut down. Send an ops vehicle to pick up the phone from the flight deck window then I'll move. No I won't return to stand."
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On BA aircraft, out of UK airports on shorthaul flights, the seat pockets are checked by the UK cleaning staff and NOT the cabin crew.
Out of non-UK airports, our shorthaul aircraft have the pockets checked by the cabin crew.
Having said that though, on this occasion, we don't actually know where this phone was found anyway. Very occasionally phones get stuck right down the side of a seat, when they have fallen out of a passengers trouser pocket; and unless all the seats pads are completely pulled out each flight on every seat, occasionally these can get missed.
They are of course, usually the well loved phone of a passenger who was on the plane previously, but if found it would be normal to offload, and in most cases ATC would usually be of assistance in this matter.
Out of non-UK airports, our shorthaul aircraft have the pockets checked by the cabin crew.
Having said that though, on this occasion, we don't actually know where this phone was found anyway. Very occasionally phones get stuck right down the side of a seat, when they have fallen out of a passengers trouser pocket; and unless all the seats pads are completely pulled out each flight on every seat, occasionally these can get missed.
They are of course, usually the well loved phone of a passenger who was on the plane previously, but if found it would be normal to offload, and in most cases ATC would usually be of assistance in this matter.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 763 jock
and be reserved for officers of the law who demonstrate a disregard for common bloody sense.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: not a million miles from old BKK
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a security issue. Here in Thailand where we have a major insurgency problem in the south of the country, mobile phones have many times been used to trigger IED's. The situation got so bad that a year or so ago all SIM owners had to re-register their numbers and any left over were disabled until their owners came forward.
I can understand this Captains frustration at not being able to get rid of if from his/her aircraft without having to return to the stand with the further delays that this would, apparently, have incurred.
I can understand this Captains frustration at not being able to get rid of if from his/her aircraft without having to return to the stand with the further delays that this would, apparently, have incurred.
Of course if the scenario had escalated, he may have found himself parking a long way from anywhere and deploying the slides! Then all the pax and crew get detained, aircraft searched,etc. That is why the risk must be assessed and an appropriate response taken when those that need to know agree on the threat and subsequent procedure.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wayne Manor
Posts: 1,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course if the scenario had escalated, he may have found himself parking a long way from anywhere and deploying the slides! Then all the pax and crew get detained, aircraft searched,etc. That is why the risk must be assessed and an appropriate response taken when those that need to know agree on the threat and subsequent procedure.
sheesh !
Which is an option, provided he told the Airport authority he was doing that. Do we know if he told anyone what he did, or was he seen by someone else who reported the incident.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Age: 80
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaks Once
Unlike many post on here high explosive only "speaks once". A small mobile phone packed with explosives is a serious matter and should be disposed with as soon as possible.
Full marks to the Captain involved
Full marks to the Captain involved
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Glasgow,Scotland,UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
captain throws phone out of window
isnt it the real issue here, that it was British Airways, and THEY do not do things like this. if this was a Ryanair flight, he would be getting a bonus from Michael, who would be on to the media about how this captain was only doing the right thing to get his weight below MTOW
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,832
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MIDLGW
Well done, Bettygirl, for telling the world about how we do our security checks
Seriously?????????????????????
You think it's a secret?????????????????
Stupidest post in this entire thread
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wayne Manor
Posts: 1,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well done, Bettygirl, for telling the world about how we do our security checks 
in the public domain..
jury at Woolwich crown court also found Karim, 31, guilty of three additional counts of preparing for terrorist attacks, including conspiring with on-the-run radical cleric Awlaki. Karim plotted to blow up an aircraft, shared information of use to Awlaki, offered to help financial or disruptive attacks on BA and gained a UK job to exploit terrorist purposes, the jurors ruled.
Police took months to break encrypted messages on his computer. They found he had been in direct contact with Awlaki, who is accused of having links to the attempted bombing of a plane over Detroit during Christmas in 2009 and an attempt last year to explode ink printer bombs on freight planes heading to the US.
Karim, who worked for BA in Newcastle, studied electronics at Manchester University from 1998 to 2002 where he gained a 2.2. He then went back to his native Bangladesh, where he supported an extremist organisation.
He returned to the UK in 2006, purportedly to seek medical treatment for his young son, who was wrongly thought to have cancer. But police believe Karim had committed himself to violent jihad and sought a job where he could best help the terrorist cause.
In September 2007 he became a graduate IT trainee with BA Police described the computer encryption Karim used as the most sophisticated they had seen in a British terrorist case. It took nine months to crack the secrets of his home computer, with one detective comparing the encryption to "Russian dolls", where one layer was cracked only to reveal another.
Police believe Karim was offering to supply information to terrorists that could be used to stage an attack. He also tried to join BA cabin crew during a strike but failed because of a technicality.
Police took months to break encrypted messages on his computer. They found he had been in direct contact with Awlaki, who is accused of having links to the attempted bombing of a plane over Detroit during Christmas in 2009 and an attempt last year to explode ink printer bombs on freight planes heading to the US.
Karim, who worked for BA in Newcastle, studied electronics at Manchester University from 1998 to 2002 where he gained a 2.2. He then went back to his native Bangladesh, where he supported an extremist organisation.
He returned to the UK in 2006, purportedly to seek medical treatment for his young son, who was wrongly thought to have cancer. But police believe Karim had committed himself to violent jihad and sought a job where he could best help the terrorist cause.
In September 2007 he became a graduate IT trainee with BA Police described the computer encryption Karim used as the most sophisticated they had seen in a British terrorist case. It took nine months to crack the secrets of his home computer, with one detective comparing the encryption to "Russian dolls", where one layer was cracked only to reveal another.
Police believe Karim was offering to supply information to terrorists that could be used to stage an attack. He also tried to join BA cabin crew during a strike but failed because of a technicality.