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Old 21st Jun 2011, 00:17   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2004
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Great CRM ....

I smoke, but never in the cockpit ... thats a personal thing .... other Captains maintain it as their right to do so, but are discreet about it ......... so .......... as we are all part of a team up there, and with a bit of thought applied, unless the cabin crew member had an issue with the captain, why say that to a planeload of passengers, probably a fair proportion of whom were also smokers ? one rule for them, another for us ? that won't go down well.

I'm happy that flights are non smoking nowdays for everyones sakes, but most of the fumes on the flight deck are from burnt bread rolls in the ovens, and there is something called live and let live eh ?

Last edited by Teddy Robinson; 21st Jun 2011 at 00:18. Reason: stick F again ... derr
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Old 21st Jun 2011, 13:10   #22 (permalink)
 
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I suppose the smoking pilots must remember that they are already flying into thin air, being hypoxic.
And not just hypoxia, there may also be a hidden threat of aerotoxic syndrome, which may not be identifiable in a cockpit filled with the smell of smoke.
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Old 21st Jun 2011, 15:21   #23 (permalink)

 
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Quote:
I smoke, but never in the cockpit ... thats a personal thing
What if yer FO smokes? An admitted smoker yourself but would
you deny yer offsider a quick one esp on long flights? Smacks
of double standards to me if you do.

PS: I'm an ex-smoker but I'll be damned if I'm ever going to
become a pain-in-the-butt reformie.
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Old 21st Jun 2011, 15:54   #24 (permalink)
 
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"That sort of discipline makes their countries strong and powerful and respectful."

Thanks Kuchan; that is actually priceless!
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Old 21st Jun 2011, 20:47   #25 (permalink)
 
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Tobacco/ Oil smoke...

Odd how:

Tobacco smoke is taboo / deadly

whilst

Oil smoke is OK / harmless?

Cranfield report finally published

Could somebody please explain the di££erence....
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Old 22nd Jun 2011, 06:22   #26 (permalink)
 
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Buster

Quote:
Could somebody please explain the di££erence....
Yeah, put that in your next contract. There are still many countries that do not have smoking laws. Sucking in stale oil fumes of older aircraft is the cost of a ticket. Both the drivers and the pax have the choice (giving they have done their reasearch)

Boeing boost, that 787 will have electric ACM's? Have not heard of where the heating air that used to be from the engines comes from.
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Old 22nd Jun 2011, 07:38   #27 (permalink)
 
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747

That is utter BS. Saudi's insist that it is their right to smoke. It matters not if they have bid a no smoking line, nor what is written in the policy manual. I speak from 19 years experience of putting up with this [email protected] And for you uninitiated, don't even try the "you're the captain, kick him off the flight", you will only lose as on your next check, he'll light up on the taxiway.

What separates the 1st world from the rest of the "developing, developed, 2nd, 3rd, 8th, etc." world is the ability to enforce the law no mater how unpopular.

RE: driving & smoking
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Old 22nd Jun 2011, 09:32   #28 (permalink)
 
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As an ex-heavy smoker married to a heavy smoker I can see both sides of the problem. Smokers don't perform as well when denied their nicotine (patches and gum etc. don't quite do it). Yet there are real dangers in smoking when driving and flying (mainly during certain phases of flight) due to hot ash falling or fags falling onto the lap, onto the floor.... So if you ban smokers you get less than 100% from them after a time which can be dangerous, if you let them smoke then you have other risks or simply 'unacceptable social behaviour' affecting others.

The only real answer is not to employ nicotine addicts at all but that would take a huge number of excellent pilots out of the system; could it cope?
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Old 22nd Jun 2011, 09:40   #29 (permalink)
 
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A tiny bit off topic but still related.

When the aircraft smoking ban was first introduced it was common on the 747 for cabin crew smokers to remove the trollies from their stowage in the galley, which leaves a large sealed area, get in and have a crafty smoke!

Many a time I appeared in the galley and opened the doors to find a red faced steward/ess hudled up (cold as it is chilled) and surrounded by a fog of smoke.

Happy days
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Old 22nd Jun 2011, 09:41   #30 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
The only real answer is not to employ nicotine addicts at all but that would take a huge number of excellent pilots out of the system; could it cope?
When I started flying in 1956 smoking was fashionable and a high proportion of the population smoked, which would have resulted in an almighty pilot shortage
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Old 22nd Jun 2011, 09:54   #31 (permalink)
 
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I recall a while back a youtube cockpit video, possibly eastern Europe or the Balkans and possibly a cargo DC9 - an instrument approach where the crew were all smoking and the talk, according to those who knew the language spoken, was of chicken farming and the price of eggs. Anyone still have a link to that? My searches have failed to find it.

The late Jim Lee, of Shackleton fame, used to smoke on the Logi Islander flights up in Orkney, of course most of the pax were smoking too! Neat little chrome plated ashtrays on the Islander in those days. The longer sectors were just long enough for a smoke!
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Old 22nd Jun 2011, 11:03   #32 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Odd how:

Tobacco smoke is taboo / deadly

whilst

Oil smoke is OK / harmless?
BiL is a reformed smoker and, unlike Slasher, will stand in the street with buses and taxis dieseling past and complain about a smoker several yards away.

My ol' skip on Viscounts used the OM as the signal to light up the last of the flight.

Haven't smoked for years - must have a nice Cuban one of these days - and a decent cigar as well
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Old 22nd Jun 2011, 12:41   #33 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Haven't smoked for years - must have a nice Cuban one of these days - and a decent cigar as well
You can buy both in Havana
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Old 23rd Jun 2011, 07:43   #34 (permalink)

 
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Quote:
...will stand in the street with buses and taxis dieseling past
and complain about a smoker several yards away
Not only are those buggers annoying, but esp those who are UPWIND of
any smoke and complain bitterly - which means they are not breathing
anything in, just they can't stand SEEING it. Its them I detest the most.

If the FO smokes I simply ask if he can keep it to not more than one durry an
hour, and only at those convenient times when I have an option to leave the
cockpit if I reckon his ciggies pong like burnt horseshit (Dunghills for one!).
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Old 23rd Jun 2011, 08:56   #35 (permalink)
 
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Look carefully at 3.29!! How's things were in the olden days!
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Old 23rd Jun 2011, 11:18   #36 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
boeing boost, that 787 will have electric acm's? Have not heard of where the heating air that used to be from the engines comes from.
Pprooners??
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Old 23rd Jun 2011, 12:25   #37 (permalink)
 
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Heat Exchangers
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Old 25th Jun 2011, 17:25   #38 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
The only real answer is not to employ nicotine addicts at all but that would take a huge number of excellent pilots out of the system; could it cope?
Those excellent pilots could always stop smoking. If keeping their drug habit is more important than their career, then they are not excellent pilots.

Substance abuse is incompatible with safety in aviation.
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Old 25th Jun 2011, 17:56   #39 (permalink)
 
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Spoken like a true nonpilot.
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Old 25th Jun 2011, 18:32   #40 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Substance abuse is incompatible with safety in aviation.
I'm not convinced that the term 'substance abuse' should be applied to nicotine. You could argue it both ways but there is a huge stigma associated with 'substance abuse' so probably best not to use the term.

Many, many firms - not just in aviation - refuse to employ smokers. Period. I don't know what the legal situation is in the UK/EU or elsewhere but surely all of us here must know that to be true? I gave up when it got to the point that I was always craving a ciggie -- shops, restaurants, certain workplaces (this was before the blanket EU ban in buildings) etc. I reasoned that I might as well get the grief over with and have done with it.....it worked but it was hell, to be honest.

I see friends with electronic fags today, with little lights on the end and 'smoke' emanating from them. I think they have just transferred their addiction to those, because they are so realistic. Presumably they are safer health-wise, they are not hot so cannot cause damage and seem not to smell as far as I can tell so won't offend even the fussiest other than those who object to their pilots having nicotine in their blood per se, a group I don't have any time for, honestly. Apparently not everyone allows these to be used in non-smoking places? If they are allowed, maybe it's the answer for flight-crew?
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