Fakers, fakers everywhere!
Join Date: May 2005
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DW is right: they must be exposed. What I resent is that it is up to the lowly pilot at the grass roots level to risk vilification by exposing / whistle blow what everyone already damn-well knows:- mainly the agency, airline or regulatory body.
(chosing an Italian name and the Mafia Boss should be considered an metaphor, appliable to any nation ....)
If the system is that rotten, the individual can't do anything. He will be eliminated on the spot.
Civil Aviation is rotten. Most regulators are infiltrated and manipulated by the national Airlines or manufacturors. It's about profits and bonusses, safety is simply a poor victim left behind and no one cares. Civil Aviation has to be cheap for the consumer and profitable for the share holder and manager.
Fakers eventually play into their hands. It means a bigger pool of readily and cheaply available pilots. Therfore no power is very much intersted to unveil this corrup behavior.
End of the story.
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The more I read threads like this the more I mourn why I ever bothered to do things properly. Surely I could be a Captain by now, fake though I be, in some airline somewhere, been paid silly money. It's depressing. I'm too straight, too sensible. Too naive.
Instead I get paid peanuts for a tough job with zero status and no money. And I hate my job.
Who the hell wants to be a pilot anyway? Dreamers and fools, that's who.
Instead I get paid peanuts for a tough job with zero status and no money. And I hate my job.
Who the hell wants to be a pilot anyway? Dreamers and fools, that's who.
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A lot of aspersions cast on the group of South Africans who showed up at Korean Air in 1996..........any truth to that? Maybe their presence blocked the upgrade of a few disgruntled canucks and aussies.
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haejangkuk... suspect SP's point is that skygods are quick " out " nationals in 3rd world but balk at exposing those from their home countries. In KAL, when union f/os ask prominent expat captains about some suspected dodgy foreign captains, all they get are stonewalls! haejangkuki suspect SP's point is that skygods are quick " out " nationals in 3rd world but balk at exposing those from their home countries. In KAL, when union f/os ask prominent expat captains about some suspected dodgy foreign captains, all they get are stonewalls!
Just heard that there is a " parker pen hours " wonderboy from crossair lurking around looking wise, smug and " acy " in korean. I am sure there are guys over there who know about his shenenigans.
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T Taipan, are you trying to draw attention away from those aussie ex f/os ex 1989 sipute who miraculously went up to KAL as captains after a few years in the middle-east and africa? Parker Pen halfback is known and will soon be outed i believe.
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India may have 4000 'fake' pilots
NDTV Correspondent, Updated: March 14, 2011 13:38 IST
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New Delhi: Just a few days after Parminder Kaur Gulati, a suspended pilot of Indigo airline, was arrested on charges of faking her marksheet to get a pilot licence, another arrest on the same grounds has been made. This time around, Captain J K Verma, a pilot of the national carrier Air India has been arrested.
"We have arrested Verma. Investigations are on. We have been provided more names by the Directorate General Civil Aviation (DGCA). The scanner is on two more pilots - Meenakshi Sehgal of Indigo and Swaran Singh Talwar of MDLR," a senior police official said.
It all began after Parminder Kaur Gulati was grounded two months ago for violating landing norms. The matter was then reported to the aviation watchdog, the DGCA. The airline watchdog admits there was a lapse, but says 4000 pilot licences are now under fresh scrutiny.
"In the wake of the fake pilot scare, licenses of 3,000 to 4,000 pilots are being scrutinised by the DGCA," said Civil Aviation secretary Nasim Zaidi.
To get a licence, a pilot has to clear three subjects. But in Gulati's case, a probe by the DGCA showed she couldn't clear two papers, so she allegedly forged the marksheets.
NDTV Correspondent, Updated: March 14, 2011 13:38 IST
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Click to Expand & PlayNew Delhi: Just a few days after Parminder Kaur Gulati, a suspended pilot of Indigo airline, was arrested on charges of faking her marksheet to get a pilot licence, another arrest on the same grounds has been made. This time around, Captain J K Verma, a pilot of the national carrier Air India has been arrested.
"We have arrested Verma. Investigations are on. We have been provided more names by the Directorate General Civil Aviation (DGCA). The scanner is on two more pilots - Meenakshi Sehgal of Indigo and Swaran Singh Talwar of MDLR," a senior police official said.
It all began after Parminder Kaur Gulati was grounded two months ago for violating landing norms. The matter was then reported to the aviation watchdog, the DGCA. The airline watchdog admits there was a lapse, but says 4000 pilot licences are now under fresh scrutiny.
"In the wake of the fake pilot scare, licenses of 3,000 to 4,000 pilots are being scrutinised by the DGCA," said Civil Aviation secretary Nasim Zaidi.
To get a licence, a pilot has to clear three subjects. But in Gulati's case, a probe by the DGCA showed she couldn't clear two papers, so she allegedly forged the marksheets.
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Trouble is that the fakers in the subcontinent were complacent, naive, overconfident and utterly stupid in their silly ways of acquiring of fake qualifications.
There are many fakers from the first world who are pretty savvy in conning their way into Asian legacy carriers that the airline administrations are none the wiser. These more sophisticated con artists cover their arses quite well and can be fairly arrogant in displaying their fake credentials as real. They come out with tirades of abuses and threats of lawsuits to intimidate the poor sods manning the flight crew recruitment in these third world airlines besides bribing their way if needed to.
There are many fakers from the first world who are pretty savvy in conning their way into Asian legacy carriers that the airline administrations are none the wiser. These more sophisticated con artists cover their arses quite well and can be fairly arrogant in displaying their fake credentials as real. They come out with tirades of abuses and threats of lawsuits to intimidate the poor sods manning the flight crew recruitment in these third world airlines besides bribing their way if needed to.
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Interesting thread. Seen the cheaters myself time and time again over the last 25 years. All too often they get away with it.
Quite a number at my current outfit, I would venture to guess. Often times wonder how guys my age and younger from a defunct South American airline had the 3000 PIC jet to be hired as DECs
Quite a number at my current outfit, I would venture to guess. Often times wonder how guys my age and younger from a defunct South American airline had the 3000 PIC jet to be hired as DECs
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Insurance payout in case of a faker's prang?
Fakers, fakers....the scourge which never seem to go away. Just the other day, someone asked; what if a faker is involved in a prang with fatalities. The insurance companies are going to dig and dig deep into the background of the commander and his crew. What if the faker is found out and the insurance company refuses to pay? What if you are unfortunate enough to be part of that crew complement and your family cannot get the insurance after your sad demise?
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I've was having a discussion on this topic during cruise earlier this week.
How can we prevent "faking" or falsifying flight hours by pilots?
The logbook alone is useless. As said earlier anyone can write up any time they want. The next step we thought of was company records. I would imagine in most EU/NA/ME airlines those should be fairly accurate. But then what to do when a company goes bankrupt.
Maybe a registration system on the national level would help. Perhaps it should be coupled with the database of registered aircraft of that state.
In that way you could makes hours traceable. Each flight hour of aircraft registered as ABCDEF should be coupled to a flight hour logged by pilots MNO/PQR/XYZ/...
A difficult undertaking. But in these days of smart electronics perhaps not impossible...
How can we prevent "faking" or falsifying flight hours by pilots?
The logbook alone is useless. As said earlier anyone can write up any time they want. The next step we thought of was company records. I would imagine in most EU/NA/ME airlines those should be fairly accurate. But then what to do when a company goes bankrupt.
Maybe a registration system on the national level would help. Perhaps it should be coupled with the database of registered aircraft of that state.
In that way you could makes hours traceable. Each flight hour of aircraft registered as ABCDEF should be coupled to a flight hour logged by pilots MNO/PQR/XYZ/...
A difficult undertaking. But in these days of smart electronics perhaps not impossible...
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Maybe a registration system on the national level would help. Perhaps it should be coupled with the database of registered aircraft of that state.
In that way you could makes hours traceable. Each flight hour of aircraft registered as ABCDEF should be coupled to a flight hour logged by pilots MNO/PQR/XYZ/...
In that way you could makes hours traceable. Each flight hour of aircraft registered as ABCDEF should be coupled to a flight hour logged by pilots MNO/PQR/XYZ/...
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fakers :)
did fake some hours, offcourse 80 percent of the students does it, if we sit backseat on a flight, offcourse we log it! if u believe in youreself, and if u think youre a good pilot few hours doesent matter. i was teaching for a while myself, and i saw students who faked many and many. and now they are on b777 or other airplanes, but the time has come that the organisations need to do something. specially to Indians , they are the biggest threat! its ok to fake small amount, but to pay for the ratings without any experience is dangerous.
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its ok to fake small amount
I hope you're winding us up- regardless, I weep for our profession.
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Slight bit of thread creep, but some years back whilst sitting my ATPL exams, I watched a group of Libyans cheating. Their system was that the "brightest" one sat at the back, and having finished his exam, strolled up to hand his paper to the invigilator. En route, he dropped a note on the desk of the one in front. Thus it continued.
Being agrieved, I complained directly to the CAA. I was asked to visit their offices to give full details of the events. Coincidentally, the guy I spoke to, had to leave the room for a few moments. Also coincidentally, he had left my results on his desktop in full view. This was quite a relief since results were not due to be published for a further week or so.
Doubtless the cheats profited, but perhaps invigilating standards were improved.
Being agrieved, I complained directly to the CAA. I was asked to visit their offices to give full details of the events. Coincidentally, the guy I spoke to, had to leave the room for a few moments. Also coincidentally, he had left my results on his desktop in full view. This was quite a relief since results were not due to be published for a further week or so.
Doubtless the cheats profited, but perhaps invigilating standards were improved.
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How can we prevent "faking" or falsifying flight hours by pilots?
However... A professional commercial pilot has legal responsibilities to contend with in the course of their work. If a pilot therefore undertakes to falsify records / documentation, examination results or circumvent regulatory process, then there has to remain the question in what other areas of their work do/will they falsify records / documentation, examination results or circumvent regulatory process.
No chance of this sort of stuff in the RAF. Had to submit your log book with an hours summary every month, to be checked and signed by the Squadron Commander; every three months same logbook countersigned by Station Commander (or Base Commander, as preferred by our transatlantic friends).
Habit still sticks to this day (monthly summary). Never ceased to amaze me, when I entered civil flying, that nobody took much interest in that hallowed document. You could write whatever you wished with the world famous Parker Pen.. Proper companies had their own computerised records which proper chaps could request to back up their own written records.
Needless to say, dodgy members of our profession would be in no hurry to avail themselves of this option.
Habit still sticks to this day (monthly summary). Never ceased to amaze me, when I entered civil flying, that nobody took much interest in that hallowed document. You could write whatever you wished with the world famous Parker Pen.. Proper companies had their own computerised records which proper chaps could request to back up their own written records.
Needless to say, dodgy members of our profession would be in no hurry to avail themselves of this option.
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Time to get rid of personal flying logbook
It's time major airlines get rid of the practice of depending on personal flying logbook to ascertain the experience level of applicants. They should use certified computerised records from the applicant's former airline. I have seen many cheats around where the parker pens and biros were put to really creative use in the padding of skyhigh jet hours.
The smaller outfits will really have to be vigilant in accepting candidates from bush flying, charter, corporate, freight or recreational backgrounds.
And what the
are " major " legacy carriers accepting candidates from dubious outfits where they certainly know that hours can easily be fudged? Korean, CA, Air China, even EK and EY
The smaller outfits will really have to be vigilant in accepting candidates from bush flying, charter, corporate, freight or recreational backgrounds.
And what the
are " major " legacy carriers accepting candidates from dubious outfits where they certainly know that hours can easily be fudged? Korean, CA, Air China, even EK and EY