IndiGo with more fake pilots
I'm not sure if this has been posted before on PPRuNe, but I think this news item on the BBC from 3 March is very ironic.
BBC News - India anti-corruption chief PJ Thomas forced to resign
The head of India's anti-corruption watchdog has been forced to resign by the Supreme Court on the grounds that he himself faces corruption charges.
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indigo
flapperjack, touche! touche! touche! we seem to have touched a raw nerve here. Is the truth too painful for you to face?
The whole thing was not about pk or anybody else. We are confident of our training and professionalism and can stand up to anybody as long as they are fair and professional. It does not matter who is promoted or not as long as they have a decent crm and know their stuff. It is the advent of guys with dubious backgrounds who seem to have taken over with no respect for procedures and norms. All kinds of private SOPs are being propogated now by these guys who only believe in politics, groupism, bias and nepotism. they destroyed the government airline first - look at its pathetic state and then they got into kf and look what they did to it. now it seems to be the turn of indigo. for us indigo was our first airline and we got a good professional training that is why the airline looking for 330 pilots has chosen maximum number of us from indigo. indigo just does not appear the same. should someone be not held responsible for directing the two "fake" captains towards this act (as pointed out in another post) and then training them and unleashing them on us. it makes us laugh when someone talks of "fraternity" - The only fraternity known to these guys is of ex govt airline pilots. grow up guys you are no more in the picture and dont carry even one in five domestic passengers.
The whole thing was not about pk or anybody else. We are confident of our training and professionalism and can stand up to anybody as long as they are fair and professional. It does not matter who is promoted or not as long as they have a decent crm and know their stuff. It is the advent of guys with dubious backgrounds who seem to have taken over with no respect for procedures and norms. All kinds of private SOPs are being propogated now by these guys who only believe in politics, groupism, bias and nepotism. they destroyed the government airline first - look at its pathetic state and then they got into kf and look what they did to it. now it seems to be the turn of indigo. for us indigo was our first airline and we got a good professional training that is why the airline looking for 330 pilots has chosen maximum number of us from indigo. indigo just does not appear the same. should someone be not held responsible for directing the two "fake" captains towards this act (as pointed out in another post) and then training them and unleashing them on us. it makes us laugh when someone talks of "fraternity" - The only fraternity known to these guys is of ex govt airline pilots. grow up guys you are no more in the picture and dont carry even one in five domestic passengers.
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I dont know if you even read what you write, but the 4 paragraph long essay has been written by you. Raw nerves are obvious aren't they? Again.. u are the one with the problem and u r the one not facing the truth. And the truth is that u obviously cannot cope with your seniority. Have you checked the persons in questions credentials and experience before you slay them in a public forum? or your just pointing a wild finger and the first person you stop at is the person who gets it from you? Have you personally seen the bribes and contacts? or are u just unhappy you dont have pull in the airline? You obviously need it. Desperately. The fact that you had to mention Mr. Pk's name 10 times obviously means he was your favorite.. and this new person is not. You are the one professing politics, groupism, bias and nepotism. Just cuz you feel left out? This is not high school. If you have a problem why dont you be a grown up and handle it directly. Dont be a teenager and try to destroy the reputation of an airline ands its professionals, who have spent their whole lives building their reputation. If they started kooochi poooing you will you be singing a different tune.... I think you are just starved for attention and need to keep writing rubbish cuz this is the only way you can create politics, groupism, bias and nepotism.
Stop playing the blame game and man up. Be professional and do your job. Either do it well, dont just sit here and whine... There are no shortcuts to experience. So calm down and let the experienced professionals do their job!
Stop playing the blame game and man up. Be professional and do your job. Either do it well, dont just sit here and whine... There are no shortcuts to experience. So calm down and let the experienced professionals do their job!
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As Many As 4500 'Pilots' Under Investigation In Delhi Many Could Be Flying Without Proper Credentials
The government in Delhi, India is investigating as many as 4,500 people who may be flying without proper licenses, including as pilot-in-command for the airline IndiGo.
Air travel has become increasingly popular, particularly among India's burgeoning middle class, and airlines have had difficulty hiring enough pilots to keep up with demand. After two pilots were arrested for license fraud recently, India's Civil Aviation Minister Vayalar Ravi has been compelled to open an investigation into credentials held by more than 4,500 people. "I have directed the DGCA (Directorate General of Civil Aviation) to examine all the licences issued in the past and to establish a procedure for more detailed verification while issuing such licences," Mr Ravi told parliament last week.
The Australian reports that the uncredentialed pilots are only the most recent of India's aviation problems. 57 pilots have been caught under the influence of alcohol on duty in the last two years, but only 10 have been fired. In May, an accident in southern India fatally injured 158 people, and the official investigation cited a "sleepy pilot" as the cause of the crash.
FMI: Government of India, Ministry of Civil Aviation
[email protected]
The government in Delhi, India is investigating as many as 4,500 people who may be flying without proper licenses, including as pilot-in-command for the airline IndiGo.
Air travel has become increasingly popular, particularly among India's burgeoning middle class, and airlines have had difficulty hiring enough pilots to keep up with demand. After two pilots were arrested for license fraud recently, India's Civil Aviation Minister Vayalar Ravi has been compelled to open an investigation into credentials held by more than 4,500 people. "I have directed the DGCA (Directorate General of Civil Aviation) to examine all the licences issued in the past and to establish a procedure for more detailed verification while issuing such licences," Mr Ravi told parliament last week.
The Australian reports that the uncredentialed pilots are only the most recent of India's aviation problems. 57 pilots have been caught under the influence of alcohol on duty in the last two years, but only 10 have been fired. In May, an accident in southern India fatally injured 158 people, and the official investigation cited a "sleepy pilot" as the cause of the crash.
FMI: Government of India, Ministry of Civil Aviation
[email protected]
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Well it seems that before they day's flight, expat captains need to ask their first officers if their fraudulent flight papers are current
.
Can you imagine it... no valid pilots in the entire country
? I love it... just love it.
And these gabronies flying on fake certificates are demanding that expats submit to medical examinations administered by the Indian Air Force.... what a farce
!
Hey... let's make a deal with the Indian Pilots... they get a valid pilots certificates and expats will submit to Indian First Class Medical Exam.
What do you think? Or... the fake Indian Pilots should be satisfied if expat captains obtain forged medical certificates from the Indian Government.
.Can you imagine it... no valid pilots in the entire country
? I love it... just love it. And these gabronies flying on fake certificates are demanding that expats submit to medical examinations administered by the Indian Air Force.... what a farce
!Hey... let's make a deal with the Indian Pilots... they get a valid pilots certificates and expats will submit to Indian First Class Medical Exam.
What do you think? Or... the fake Indian Pilots should be satisfied if expat captains obtain forged medical certificates from the Indian Government.
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The situation with pilot licences in India is approaching the classic "if you owe the bank a million dollars and can't repay it, you have a problem - if you owe the bank ten billion dollars and can't repay it, the bank has a problem".
Someone has beaten me to it, but my prediction is that a few spear carriers unfortunate enough not to have family conections will get burned - and the vast majority will, at the stroke of a pen, be declared, magically, to have valid documentation.
Done and dusted, with virtually nothing changed.
Someone has beaten me to it, but my prediction is that a few spear carriers unfortunate enough not to have family conections will get burned - and the vast majority will, at the stroke of a pen, be declared, magically, to have valid documentation.
Done and dusted, with virtually nothing changed.
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7x7
That is the most apt description of what aviation in India faces today.
EVERY FTU in India fudges the books. If the DGCA actually combed through the records and took action, aviation in India will come to a grinding halt.
That is the most apt description of what aviation in India faces today.
EVERY FTU in India fudges the books. If the DGCA actually combed through the records and took action, aviation in India will come to a grinding halt.
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I am a journalist with an English news channel and recently stumbled across two rackets. One of them now defunct where the perpetrators ran off with money from trainee pilots promising them type rating.
Apparently the ex-racketeer now flies with a reputed airline company in India.
Now, if any of you wish to share info on or off-record... please go ahead an PM me. It could help us clean things up a bit.
Or mail me at [email protected]
Apparently the ex-racketeer now flies with a reputed airline company in India.
Now, if any of you wish to share info on or off-record... please go ahead an PM me. It could help us clean things up a bit.
Or mail me at [email protected]
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OK... here it is...
Expats are being routed out of India via the Indian Medical Inquisition which was perpetrated by SWIP and the Indian Airline Pilot's Union.
More pilots are being arrested for false airmen certificates. And amongst of those illegals are those hoping for a quick command with the vacancies created by the expats being TMUed by the Indian Air Force Medicos
.
What that's saying about Karma
?
Expats are being routed out of India via the Indian Medical Inquisition which was perpetrated by SWIP and the Indian Airline Pilot's Union
.More pilots are being arrested for false airmen certificates. And amongst of those illegals are those hoping for a quick command with the vacancies created by the expats being TMUed by the Indian Air Force Medicos
.What that's saying about Karma
?
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A bunch of guys interviewing with Flydubai on the 29th and 30th of March. I guess India is either incredible or incredible... I guess it depends on how one views the term incredible.
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DGCA's daughter involved too!
Ok,here's a new twist to the story.
And this is the Director of Air Safety's own daughter who was employed by Spicejet....!!
So now you know whether the chicken came first of the egg huh..
SpiceJet gives daughter of DGCA officer the boot - The Times of India
Interesting read....
And this is the Director of Air Safety's own daughter who was employed by Spicejet....!!
So now you know whether the chicken came first of the egg huh..
SpiceJet gives daughter of DGCA officer the boot - The Times of India
Interesting read....
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When the regulators themselves have vested interest, one can't expect objectivity in their functioning, can we? And that surely compromises aviation safety, forget about regulators ability to stay ahead of the times...
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what does an expat medical certificate look like
I suspect the problem with forging, is the age of the paper, it must be 1950's paper. and well aged.
but there must be a web site that offers these documents by now.
but there must be a web site that offers these documents by now.
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DGCA yet to IMPROVE iTS FUNCTIONING
Pilots have gone to jail, more will follow. A DGCA official is jail, more will follow.
To make sure there is no repeat of the sordid affair, DGCA must:
1. MUST ENSURE TIME BOUND, SPEEDY disposal of all APPLICATIONs received.
2. Not hide behind shortage of Staff--USE the huge money received from Licence, rating and aircraft endorsement applications.
3. Have a WORKING COMPLAINT REDRESSAL SYSTEM.
4. If a DGCA official asks individuals to produce Cerificates beyond those prescibed and displayed as required on their website- he should be promptly & publicly punished for the same.
5. Define Syllabus for each exam.
6. Prescribe specific Reading Text for each subject.
7. Display sample papers on each subject on the website.
8. Have a defined Question bank, which may be updated every 3 or 6 months, followed by due publicity of the same.
IMPLEMENT THE ABOVE AND SEE CORRUPTION DISAPPEAR
To make sure there is no repeat of the sordid affair, DGCA must:
1. MUST ENSURE TIME BOUND, SPEEDY disposal of all APPLICATIONs received.
2. Not hide behind shortage of Staff--USE the huge money received from Licence, rating and aircraft endorsement applications.
3. Have a WORKING COMPLAINT REDRESSAL SYSTEM.
4. If a DGCA official asks individuals to produce Cerificates beyond those prescibed and displayed as required on their website- he should be promptly & publicly punished for the same.
5. Define Syllabus for each exam.
6. Prescribe specific Reading Text for each subject.
7. Display sample papers on each subject on the website.
8. Have a defined Question bank, which may be updated every 3 or 6 months, followed by due publicity of the same.
IMPLEMENT THE ABOVE AND SEE CORRUPTION DISAPPEAR
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from The Times of India
"Those who allowed pilots with fake licences should be tried for attempt to murder
Our benighted land of scams is these days witnessing a brand new addition to the ever-growing list – fake pilots. Airline after airline is discovering pilots, flying huge jets with thousands of unsuspecting passengers, without being qualified to do so.
The lid was blown off the scam when one of the largest and fastest growing airlines which recently ordered the largest number of jets from Airbus, realised that its woman pilot touched down on the tarmac a passenger-loaded airplane, on its nose wheel. The aircraft normally lands on its rear set of wheels and then the nose lowers down gently as it rolls on the tarmac. Turns out, the pilot had got the job based on a fake licence, or fake marksheet or both.
It was as if someone had opened the floodgates. Soon, other airlines realised they couldn’t afford to point fingers at anyone, for all of them found themselves afflicted by the same malaise.
The civil aviation ministry and its wing to look after air safety – Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) – have been quick to denounce the ‘discovery’ and have promised the ‘strictest’ possible action against the erring airlines and pilots. Some may consider this sacking laughable, but to me it is infuriating, more so after we realised how these fake pilots have been playing with the lives of thousands of flyers every day with complete connivance of the very people who are there to ensure that they don’t.
Our TV channel Times Now recently exposed a scary nexus between an aviation academy based in Baramati, Maharashtra, and senior officials of the DGCA. The academy – Carver Flying Institute has backing from top Maharashtra politicians. For the record, Baramati is the constituency of politician and union minister Sharad Pawar while the civil aviation ministry, till very recently, was run by Pawar’s right-hand man, Praful Patel.
The channel expose showed how the academy continued to function despite losing its licence even as the unholy politician-DGCA top brass nexus helped untrained and ineligible pilots clear their exams so that they could ferry unsuspecting passengers. Apparently surprise inspections too were carried out at the academy with the crooked babus at DGCA ensuring the surprise element is maintained by informing the academy about it 20 days in advance.
We have heard that the government is sacking/taking action against those involved that includes the DGCA officials, the pilots and perhaps the airlines as well. This is absolutely unadulterated balderdash. What good does sacking a corrupt babu or pilot achieve in this case? ZILCH! These people have toyed with the lives of thousands. This is nothing short of an attempt to murder and they need to be booked under laws that are appropriate under the circumstances, no less.
So far we have been witnessing financial frauds being perpetuated on us. They are bad, no doubt, but they don’t endanger human lives the way this pathetic and scary nexus of corrupt babus, politicians and big airlines does.
And in my view, the fake pilots would be the lowest in terms of culpability. They are desperate for jobs and in a nation where everything is available for a price, they simply want a shortcut without either being qualified or being incapable of performing the job. The real culprits are the babus and the politicians who not just allowed, but actively participated in perpetuating this attempt at mass murder. They are worse than the criminals who roam the streets.
The Indian apex court is currently in an activist mode. I would somehow wish it took cognizance of these incidents too. Not just me, but anyone would agree that the government that is itself responsible for this fraud on its people cannot be trusted with stemming this rot.
And while I am at it, let me extol all of you who feel for the nation to join Anna Hazare on April 5 as he starts an indefinite fast for demanding a people’s anti-corruption law. "
Our benighted land of scams is these days witnessing a brand new addition to the ever-growing list – fake pilots. Airline after airline is discovering pilots, flying huge jets with thousands of unsuspecting passengers, without being qualified to do so.
The lid was blown off the scam when one of the largest and fastest growing airlines which recently ordered the largest number of jets from Airbus, realised that its woman pilot touched down on the tarmac a passenger-loaded airplane, on its nose wheel. The aircraft normally lands on its rear set of wheels and then the nose lowers down gently as it rolls on the tarmac. Turns out, the pilot had got the job based on a fake licence, or fake marksheet or both.
It was as if someone had opened the floodgates. Soon, other airlines realised they couldn’t afford to point fingers at anyone, for all of them found themselves afflicted by the same malaise.
The civil aviation ministry and its wing to look after air safety – Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) – have been quick to denounce the ‘discovery’ and have promised the ‘strictest’ possible action against the erring airlines and pilots. Some may consider this sacking laughable, but to me it is infuriating, more so after we realised how these fake pilots have been playing with the lives of thousands of flyers every day with complete connivance of the very people who are there to ensure that they don’t.
Our TV channel Times Now recently exposed a scary nexus between an aviation academy based in Baramati, Maharashtra, and senior officials of the DGCA. The academy – Carver Flying Institute has backing from top Maharashtra politicians. For the record, Baramati is the constituency of politician and union minister Sharad Pawar while the civil aviation ministry, till very recently, was run by Pawar’s right-hand man, Praful Patel.
The channel expose showed how the academy continued to function despite losing its licence even as the unholy politician-DGCA top brass nexus helped untrained and ineligible pilots clear their exams so that they could ferry unsuspecting passengers. Apparently surprise inspections too were carried out at the academy with the crooked babus at DGCA ensuring the surprise element is maintained by informing the academy about it 20 days in advance.
We have heard that the government is sacking/taking action against those involved that includes the DGCA officials, the pilots and perhaps the airlines as well. This is absolutely unadulterated balderdash. What good does sacking a corrupt babu or pilot achieve in this case? ZILCH! These people have toyed with the lives of thousands. This is nothing short of an attempt to murder and they need to be booked under laws that are appropriate under the circumstances, no less.
So far we have been witnessing financial frauds being perpetuated on us. They are bad, no doubt, but they don’t endanger human lives the way this pathetic and scary nexus of corrupt babus, politicians and big airlines does.
And in my view, the fake pilots would be the lowest in terms of culpability. They are desperate for jobs and in a nation where everything is available for a price, they simply want a shortcut without either being qualified or being incapable of performing the job. The real culprits are the babus and the politicians who not just allowed, but actively participated in perpetuating this attempt at mass murder. They are worse than the criminals who roam the streets.
The Indian apex court is currently in an activist mode. I would somehow wish it took cognizance of these incidents too. Not just me, but anyone would agree that the government that is itself responsible for this fraud on its people cannot be trusted with stemming this rot.
And while I am at it, let me extol all of you who feel for the nation to join Anna Hazare on April 5 as he starts an indefinite fast for demanding a people’s anti-corruption law. "
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chrislamb
Yep, all correct.
Also look at the motivation, as hinted here. Reporter Samiran Saha alludes to former Aviation Minister Prafu Patel's "inexplicable" decisions to over-order aircraft and to give away Air India legacy, profitable routes.
Saha didn't actually state the blindingly obvious and well known (in country) allegations that Patel front-end loaded the contract price of ordered aircraft with the connivance of the manufacturers (the more aircraft ordered the more commission paid), to vastly enrich himself and to fund the political party he owes allegiance to, but also fortuitously, coincidentally and miraculously came into significant FOC equity stakes in the independent airlines that sprang up post relaxed regulation in 1995 (cost of operating/route licences).
To make the subsequent dynamic airline economic activity possible, more warm bodies were required to fly independent airline routes that he now had a conflict of interest stake in. How to do it? Use traditional methods and expedite the flow of "trained" fodder.
What's happened to Patel? What do you think? Promoted, of course. Does life ever change?
Yep, all correct.
Also look at the motivation, as hinted here. Reporter Samiran Saha alludes to former Aviation Minister Prafu Patel's "inexplicable" decisions to over-order aircraft and to give away Air India legacy, profitable routes.
Saha didn't actually state the blindingly obvious and well known (in country) allegations that Patel front-end loaded the contract price of ordered aircraft with the connivance of the manufacturers (the more aircraft ordered the more commission paid), to vastly enrich himself and to fund the political party he owes allegiance to, but also fortuitously, coincidentally and miraculously came into significant FOC equity stakes in the independent airlines that sprang up post relaxed regulation in 1995 (cost of operating/route licences).
To make the subsequent dynamic airline economic activity possible, more warm bodies were required to fly independent airline routes that he now had a conflict of interest stake in. How to do it? Use traditional methods and expedite the flow of "trained" fodder.
What's happened to Patel? What do you think? Promoted, of course. Does life ever change?
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Interesting is the fact that from all the copilots who flew with me, not one ever had an interview with the company. Let alone a technical interview.
They all landed straight-in the copilot seat only because of their father’s relation with the company.
One of them did not even know how to buckle his seat belt (Dad was his DGCA instructor/examiner); another one had a CPL ME/IR but never took or passed any ME or IR check-ride, not even an instrument written test. Not to mention another one who continually called his buddies during duty time (presumably to brag about the fact he was on the flight line and, flying!) and even repeatedly texted sms during flight.
Company is not worried: they are “fresh”, and they will learn was I told.
All con artists, or are they? Not smart enough, “Dad” is!
Ah, just read in the news about the daughter of the DGCA Air Safety director. Congrats, indeed.
Incredible India!
They all landed straight-in the copilot seat only because of their father’s relation with the company.
One of them did not even know how to buckle his seat belt (Dad was his DGCA instructor/examiner); another one had a CPL ME/IR but never took or passed any ME or IR check-ride, not even an instrument written test. Not to mention another one who continually called his buddies during duty time (presumably to brag about the fact he was on the flight line and, flying!) and even repeatedly texted sms during flight.
Company is not worried: they are “fresh”, and they will learn was I told.
All con artists, or are they? Not smart enough, “Dad” is!
Ah, just read in the news about the daughter of the DGCA Air Safety director. Congrats, indeed.
Incredible India!