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Old 12th Apr 2001, 06:09
  #21 (permalink)  
Tom Tipper
Posts: n/a

411A sounds like you're voicing your usual jealous opinions on career pilots as opposed to fly-by-night mercenaries. You are once again showing poor judgement - and I might add, who are any of us to sit in judgement.
Old 12th Apr 2001, 09:35
  #22 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

411 What a sad git you are ,you and the CEO of cathay are two of a kind. What goes on in a bar off duty should have been the end of it!! Unless of course a major fight or somethink took place. What are the Cathay pilots going to do about it?? There must surely be some kind of appeal system!!??
Old 12th Apr 2001, 10:48
  #23 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Red face

I hope the pilots at Cathay will react as they would do in most airliners : all for one !! Good luck to the guy.
I pity the ones on this thread who understand and maybe agree with the dismissal : after all these years they still don't have a clue of what aviation is all about.
Old 12th Apr 2001, 17:14
  #24 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Thumbs down


How pathetic of the CEO to have him sacked.

Maybe I'll throw my fist, should I ever meet the dinosaur.
Old 12th Apr 2001, 17:47
  #25 (permalink)  
Dep Chief PPRuNe Pilot
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: UK
Posts: 7,208

Am I losing it folks? Has the memory finally gone walkabout?

Didn't a CX management pilot allegedly once do something a little more extreme in a similar baroom situation?

I think we should be told.

Regards from the Towers
[email protected]
PPRuNe Towers is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2001, 19:46
  #26 (permalink)  
Jurassic Jet Man
Posts: n/a

No doubt the CEO acted even more immaturely than the good captain. Never drink with or near management! If it walks like a duck...

Unfortunately, CX pilots now have a hostage situation. I do not know the union set-up there, but where I hail from, my union would now be bargaining hard to get this guy his job back. My (from a distance) guess is that he will/should get it back, but it will come at a price for everyone else to pay, directly or otherwise. What item on the next contract negotiation session will this cost the pilots?

Old 12th Apr 2001, 21:31
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 4,972

>>Unfortunately, CX pilots now have a hostage situation. I do not know the union set-up there, but where I hail from, my union would now be bargaining hard to get this guy his job back.<<

Yep, at United ALPA would get his job back. Also, he could claim that alcohol made him do it so he couldn't be fired if he agreed to go to rehab. But HKAOA isn't ALPA and Hong Kong isn't the U.S....
Airbubba is online now  
Old 12th Apr 2001, 22:04
  #28 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

I agree that sacking the guy was extreme. Perhaps suspension for a few weeks would be more appropriate.

But c'mon, you people can't defend his inappropriate actions (even if he was inebriated)! As a captain, he is "presumed" able to demonstrate appropriate judgement. Instead, his actions were directed, juvenile and inappropriate. That is unequivocal.

Now, if he were a high-powered politician, you can be sure that his actions would have been vilified in the press and he would have been pressured to resign for demonstrating poor judgement and acting inappropriately - in a way "not worthy of his position". You know that would be the case - whether you agree with it or not.

I agree that sacking him is too harsh - suspension would have still sent out the same message. He is probably a great pilot/person when he is sober - firing him is too extreme.

Old 13th Apr 2001, 00:51
  #29 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Who is to say that, if the concerned el Capitan was very annoyed with his First Officer, he would not have thrown something at him? Very poor judgement on his part. And lets face it, airline Captains are SUPPOSED to exercise good judgement, even in adverse situations. The guy was a jerk.
Old 13th Apr 2001, 05:57
  #30 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

"The guy was a jerk"

Yes, but what's your point!?

Old 13th Apr 2001, 06:10
  #31 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Rule #1 in any Company is never EVER drink with management EVER! I find management types simply cant settle an issue that started in a social atmosphere without recourse to their position at work. They dont have the balls or chest hair. Unfortunately gutless wimps in power are not just confined to CX.
Old 13th Apr 2001, 06:21
  #32 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

"That" managment Capt. (nicknamed "The Swire Bottler") took early retirement and is no longer with CX. "Peanuts" was not a member of HKAOA but most agree that the punishment was too harsh. I am also sure that the CEO did not expect this level of publicity. Apart from PPRuNe, the incident got a mention , with names, in the South China Morning Post.
Old 13th Apr 2001, 10:38
  #33 (permalink)  
The Resistance
Posts: n/a

...mention on the BBC World Service yesterday morning. Made 'Turdbull' sound like the complete pratt that he is. What a truly shameful situation, and something that the entire pilot group must react to. Those of us on a base are 'forced' by the company to stay at the minumum security prison called 'Headland Hotel'. That being the case, they had better damn well start to respect our right to have a social enviornment free of any contact, and interaction with, our management. This is NOT optional. We should ALL boycott the Dakota until this situation is addressed. 'Darby', not the most brilliant of moves.....but the punishment is completely over the top. You have my sympathies, and I await the AOA's direction in regards to securing your re-instatement.

[This message has been edited by The Resistance (edited 13 April 2001).]
Old 13th Apr 2001, 10:55
  #34 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

So will this Cathay CEO find anyone to drink with ever again? Apart from sycophantic toadying types? I suggest that he is 'sent to Coventry' by anyone and everyone he tries to engage in conversation. Silent protest can be very effective - a polite 'yes' or 'no', then talk to someone else!

Old 13th Apr 2001, 18:58
  #35 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Pprune Towers:

You are talking about the Discovery Bay incident, right? I did an archive search on PPRuNe but couldn't find the original thread. I could only go back to Jan 2000. I believe the incident happened in early 1999. Can you do a search and post the url here?
Old 13th Apr 2001, 19:55
  #36 (permalink)  
aiming point
Posts: n/a

At work and at play are two separate lives and should be treated as such.
So a pilot gets a parking ticket. Well sack him as his an obvious rule breaker!!!
Another likes to go rock climbing, a sport many may consider borders on the suicidal.Well better sack him to just in case he brings those suicidal tendencies into the flight deck.
Just where do you draw the line.
At work a pilot(or anyone else)should be judged by their conduct, behaviour and standard as one thing.
Outside leave the law and legal system to deem what is appropriate behaviour just like it does for everybody else!
Old 20th Apr 2001, 10:54
  #37 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Thumbs down

Management pilot threatened a young Second Officer in Discovery Bay bar with a broken beer bottle and was given a 'stiff talking to'.
Turnbull has completely lost it but, unfortunately, none of the sycophants around him are going to speak up about anything - ever.
Last 'twist' is that Capt Munro had taken it upon himself to disobey a Union directive and had thus been suspended from the Union. I think they are quietly helping.
Old 20th Apr 2001, 17:18
  #38 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

Looks like these CX guys should stay OUT of bars.
Old 20th Apr 2001, 21:38
  #39 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a


Let me start by saying to you, and all others who have posted, I am not condoning the descision of the CEO, but...

1. Like it or lump it, for the last 10 years, there has been no such thing as "in" or "out" of work, you MUST by law (yes, by law - EU directive) act in a profesional manner while dealing with colleauges in or out of the workplace.

2. Recent Posting - AerLingus Groper
Should this man be "let off" for groping a female colleauge? after all, it wasnt done "at work".

3. Would you, as a senior captain,allow a F/O /junior/ steward(ess) poke fun at you in front of other crew members?

Obviously, there was tension between these two men long before this incident, whatever this was, the captain should never have allowed his anger to spill out in such a way.

Or, the captain was merely childish and having a little fun at the expense of the CEO, not a very clever thing to do.


you throws your nuts, and you takes your chances.
Old 20th Apr 2001, 22:01
  #40 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Thumbs up


I concur with your reasoning; however, I dispute the ultimate result.

It's difficult to put myself in the CEO's position (naturally, ), but I can't imagine myself responding, in what appears to me, such an UNREASONABLE manner.

I might well be peed off, but I certainly wouldn't have fired the guy.

I guess the moral of the story, as Slasher well knows, is don't drink with management.

How sad life can be.

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