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Air India Express incident

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Air India Express incident

Old 30th Nov 2010, 02:53
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Panicky pilot caused passenger jet plunge,

experience?

Air India Express | Panicky pilot caused passenger jet plunge
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 03:01
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Sounds more like a lack of experience.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 03:53
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http://dgca.nic.in/accident/reports/incident/VT-AXJ.pdf
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 03:54
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And there was me thinking that the ability to fly an aeroplane straight and level was a pre-requisite for any commercial pilot. If that panicked the guy then he should lose his licence because he is clearly unfit to be in control of an aeroplane.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 05:33
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sounds like this copilot will soon be a CHIEF PILOT!




(due credit to my pal richard)
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 09:36
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Air India Express incident

Reported in the Sydney Morning Herald today:

A co-pilot sent an international passenger jet into a terrifying nosedive when he adjusted his seat and accidentally pushed the control column forward, an official report revealed yesterday.
The clumsy officer then panicked and was unable to let the captain, who had gone on a toilet break, back into the cockpit as the plane plunged 7000 feet (2000 metres).
The captain only saved the Boeing 737 aircraft after using an emergency code to get through the cockpit door and take the controls back from the co-pilot, the report by India's Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) said.
The 25-year-old Indian co-pilot told the inquiry he had "got in a panic situation couldn't control the aircraft, neither open the cockpit door and answer the cabin call."
When the captain, 39, got back into the cockpit, he shouted "What are you doing?" as cabin crew ordered the 113 terrified passengers to fasten their seatbelts.
The report said there was "complete commotion" in the cabin and that passengers were "very much scared and were shouting loudly" as the plane dived steeply and boxes and liquor bottles fell into the aisle.
The Air India Express flight was flying at 37,000 feet from Dubai to Pune airport, in western India, on May 26 when the near-disaster occurred. No one was injured.
According to the report, the nosedive was "due to the copilot adjusting his seat forward and inadvertently pressing the control column forward."
The plane fell 2000 feet before the captain got back into the cockpit -- and another 5000 feet as he struggled with the panicking co-pilot.
"There was application of opposite force by pilot and copilot on control column," the report said.
It added that the copilot "probably had no clue to tackle this kind of emergency."
"Appropriate action shall be taken against the involved crew," it concluded.
After the incident, the captain tried to calm passengers by telling them that the aircraft had hit an air pocket.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 12:24
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The Air India Express flight was flying at 37,000 feet from Dubai to Pune airport, in western India, on May 26 when the near-disaster occurred. No one was injured.
It lost 7000 feet while at 37,000 feet, in cruise. No, not a near disaster, but very uncomfortable for the passengers/paying customers.
According to the report, the nosedive was "due to the copilot adjusting his seat forward and inadvertently pressing the control column forward."
Ok, here's the hard part. How did he not know how to regain his altitude?
The plane fell 2000 feet before the captain got back into the cockpit -- and another 5000 feet as he struggled with the panicking co-pilot.
The aircraft descends, and rather than fly it back to altitude, we are told that the co-pilot panicked. If this is true (mind you, this is a media report) then why is that person in a pilot's seat hauling people about?
"There was application of opposite force by pilot and copilot on control column," the report said. It added that the copilot "probably had no clue to tackle this kind of emergency."
Not an emergency. Maybe a malfunction, in a particular brain housing group.
"Appropriate action shall be taken against the involved crew," it concluded.
After the incident, the captain tried to calm passengers by telling them that the aircraft had hit an air pocket.
Well, one could complain that the captain lied to them, but I'll put myself in his shoes for a moment. Best not to shake the confidence of the pax any further by informing them that 50% of the cockpit crew is not up to scratch.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 12:53
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Not wishing to jump the gun on the facts, but the chickens are coming home to roost if low timers cannot even get the basics right.

No worry India, get rid of your expierenced expats, promote your senior co-pilots to P1 and carry on with your short sighted approach to employing low timers.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 13:07
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Quoting the first paragraph of the report at the Aviation Herald
An Air India Express Boeing 737-800, registration VT-AXJ performing flight IX-212 from Dubai (United Arab Emirates) to Pune (India) with 113 passengers, was enroute at FL370 at Mach 0.76 between waypoints PARAR and DOGET with autopilot A in CMD mode and autothrottle engaged. The captain decided to take a short break to visit the washroom and left the cockpit, however noticed the washroom was occupied and wanted to return to the cockpit, when he noticed the airplane was pitching down. He attempted to enter the cockpit, the cockpit door however did not open. He used the emergency access code to open the door and re-entered the cockpit about 40 seconds after he had left the cockpit. He observed the airplane's attitude was 26 degrees nose down and 5 degrees left bank, the speed in the red band, the mach overspeed clackers sounding. He disengaged the autopilot, arrested the descent, switched the engines to continous relight and resumed level flight before climbing back to FL370 and joining the assigned track again. The captain then engaged LNAV and VNAV modes and engaged the autopilot. The airplane continued to Pune for a safe landing, no injuries and no damage occurred. India's Directorate General of Civil Aviation DGCA released their final report concluding the probable cause of the serious incident was: The incident occurred due to inadvertent handling of the control column in fully automated mode by the copilot which got compounded as he was not trained to recover the aircraft in automated mode. Subsequent recovery actions by the PIC without coordination with copilot was the contributory factor.
India...incredible India!
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 13:07
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I do hope for the sake of the people who fly Air India Express that this article is total and utter pugwash. Maybe someone from that side of the planet could point us in the direction of the real facts.

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Old 30th Nov 2010, 13:26
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This is an account of a DGCA final report, so though the journalist might have gotten a specific wrong here and there--or not--I can't imagine it's "total and utter pugwash."
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 13:30
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I can assure you, it's not. And THAT is the worst part of all.

I did a contract at AI as a 777 TRE and NEVER in my professional career have I witnessed such utter corruption, nepotism and a training / safety department that employs bullying and victimizing tactics to humiliate as they see fit. Stone age.

I witnessed pilots (Capts and FO's) unable to fly an aircraft (no AP or FD's) straight and level on downwind and complete a safe landing from a stabilized approach. In the sim I failed a Capt unable to to land the 777 on raw data with a 15 kt x-wind. I was hauled into the safety / training dept and ORDERED to change my appraisal. I resigned. Said Capt flew to DXB and back 2 days later with a "batch-mate" and was checked to line. (All relevant and other authorities received reports from me. I guess they were lost? Yes: that includes you Mr FAA).

Read another article on how kids forge log books, almost completely and are given jobs on 737 NG's: Rajasthan: Fraud pilots busted: Nation : India Today

(At least these kids were caught, but how the hell did they ever get to occupy the seat? The trainers and examiners who passed them should be stripped of their licenses too, as and where needed).

Blame the pilots? The airlines? Or blame the despicably corrupt and [criminally] negligent SYSTEM that allows this to happen. And what about the utter xenophobic attitude of all too many hunting, driving, lobbying for the removal of the expat Capts with many, many thousands of hours so they can be replaced by "Commanders" with anything from 1500 hrs TT hours to 2 or 3000 hrs TT, and FO's to fill that void with 175-200 hrs!?

Mangalore? NOTHING was learnt nor will it be. In all too many eyes it was completely THE EXPAT'S fault, not the system that screened, hired, assessed and monitored the entire pilot body: national and expat alike. Too many pockets lined and whistles wet as a result of the siphoning off of part of the expats' salary, and so, and so on, and so on. Been said and documented all before......

Good news there are some good eggs in the bunch seeking to steer things in the right direction at AI. Hats off to them.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 13:42
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The Air India Express flight was flying at 37,000 feet from Dubai to Pune airport, in western India, on May 26 when the near-disaster occurred. No one was injured.
And we just hear about this "near-disaster" (pffft, yeah right!) now? How convenient

Not wishing to jump the gun on the facts, but the chickens are coming home to roost if low timers cannot even get the basics right.
That doesn't even looks like a low-timer. That's just plain stupidity! Mind you, he could have been one of those kids with 20 real flight hours but with 200 on his logbook.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 13:50
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I trained with some of these "wonders" in the Philippines.

Of note was the hotshot who attempted to fly his 152 on a hot day direct to 11000 feet with no regard to oil temp warnings etc etc.

The aircraft he destroyed was the only one he would use as it was "lucky", despite there being 15 others available.

This is the same individual who proclaimed himself to be the Indian Motocross Champion....despite him being unable to produce a single wheelie after 10 minutes riding a bike my 8 year old could wheelie.

I pity the Philippine flight schools obliged to take these overpaid, over egotistic idiots.

Common sense = 0
Basic Aviation Knowledge = 0
Money = unlimited
Access to exam papers = 100 percent
Ability= 10 percent
Perceived Ability = 300 percent
Ego = Unlimited



SSS
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 13:54
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Well, I did a Googling and...

The DGCA's report, whilst being appearing to be thorough in determining what happened to the control column and auto-pilot modes, appears to be painfully lacking in analysis and recommendations to prevent similar occurrences and recovery from "upsets." I'm also not totally convinced that the F/O told the investigators really what happened.

Another thing which springs to mind is how does this company get insurance? Are they actually insured? Neither pilot had more than a 1,000 jet time and also the investigator's appear not to have looked into any of the Operator's training records and systems. I do hope for India's sake that the performance of the DGCA and Air India Express is not representative of the standard of her Aviation.

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Old 30th Nov 2010, 14:30
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I hope the DGCA got it right. There are a lot of events in that cockpit that paralleled the events of Egyptair flight 990.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 15:16
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Having just read the report, I have to agree with Machinbird and feel we should be looking at this from a different, rather more sinister, angle.

If we read the co-pilots actions, it is way way beyond incompetent.

Not too well established why, if he was completing paperwork, he needed to put his seat forward ? au contraire, easier to sit further back from the column in a non Airbus FBW ship to complete papers.
Initial push force causing CWS was 20lb, okay, but when alt wng sounded he panicked and applied 50lb DOWN FORCE ? ? ' Yeah, that would help

Subsequently he put the column forward again and indeed when the Capt intervened he was doing so with 125lb pullback versus a 200ld push force from Cojo-Boy.

If this wasn't another Egypt Air/ Silk Air scenario what was it ?
I find it difficult to believe anyone could be quite this incompetent, and the aircraft was trying to help him by going into Alt Acq, while all he could do was pull the thrust back and apply even more push force.

The only thing he missed was pulling the CVR/FDR breakers, otherwise I think we can see what was intended here.

I sincerely hope he doesn't fly anymore, either for them or anyone else, as he is either too [email protected] to be allowed to do so, or suicidal, neither being a very satisfactory scenario.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 15:54
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3.2 Probable cause of the serious incident:
The incident occurred due to inadvertent handling of the control column in fully automated mode by the copilot which got compounded as he was not trained to recover the aircraft in automated mode.
The official accident report doesn't even acknowledge the fact that the red autopilot disconnect button would have put the copilot into the situation where he has been trained to recover.

I agree with captplaystation - I'll add AIE to my no fly list.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 16:27
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The DGCA's report, whilst being appearing to be thorough in determining what happened to the control column and auto-pilot modes, appears to be painfully lacking in analysis and recommendations to prevent similar occurrences and recovery from "upsets." I'm also not totally convinced that the F/O told the investigators really what happened.
If the Captain re-entered the cockpit around 40 seconds after the incident started and "only" 2000ft were lost, how the hell does one loses 5000ft more? What the copilot states in the report doesn't match the FDR recordings; how the hell does one, as a copilot, keeps pushing the column with a 200lb(!) force while the Captain is trying to recover the aircraft??? Panicking? Yeah, I bet you did!

I agree with captplaystation:
Having just read the report, I have to agree with Machinbird and feel we should be looking at this from a different, rather more sinister, angle.
If we read the co-pilots actions, it is way way beyond incompetent.
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Old 30th Nov 2010, 22:15
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Why would anybody need training to recover an aircraft in automated mode. Two clicks and you are a 727.
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