Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure

[eliptic]

As an old banger-driver, as well as a new Porshe-cockpit driver

Time to read the Porsche instruction book

[Teddy Robinson]

FYI

the image of the piece on the previous page and that in the back of the van appeared to be one and the same at first ..... upon closer examination it looks as if they have two of the larger pieces. TR

[misd-agin]

JenCluse - 767 glide ratio is approx. 18:1. Wingletted 737/757 are probably 19+:1. 787 is over 21:1

Learned on a glider that was 14:1. Even the 727 was a better glider!

[piperr]

A better picture of damage. I have arrowed clearly missing engine section !!

Photo' : David Loh, Reuters
-0-

[Scuffers]

Not looking great....

"Qantas A380s not likely to take off again soon"

QANTAS has found issues with three more Rolls-Royce jet engines on its grounded Airbus A380 fleet, dashing the likelihood of their early return to the skies.

Two engines - on aircraft in Sydney and Los Angeles - have been taken off for closer inspection as a result of the eight-hour tests Rolls-Royce recommended.

It now seems increasingly unlikely that the grounding of the fleet will be limited to the 48 hours outlined by the chief executive, Alan Joyce, on Friday.


Qantas A380s not likely to take off again soon

Anoyingly, I'm booked to be on one next week

[alisoncc]

The ABC and the Australian both reporting that Qantas have found problems with their other 380 engines, and their grounding may well be extended.

[bearfoil]

The IPT failed for a fault that should have been mitigated before the disc failure (we think). I cannot see it any other way at this point. If this a/c (operator) was violative of Two AD's, we can't very well pin the cavernous casing on the powerplant. We'll have to see. If so, absolutely nothing needs to change as yet in design or manufacture, only maintenace/inspex. There are a myriad of branching discussions to be had, but only hypothetical, and not germane to this discussion. If disc failure a la UAL232, a defect in metal, then there we are, but I entirely doubt it. "Containment" is meant to be for blades only, not discs as has been said before. The brightly painted "blade" in the RRTRENT900 disc ejection on youtube is a FanBlade, and was contained in the fan shroud, a kevlar, composite, honeycomb and light weight structure. There are Fan Blades, there are turbine blades, then there are discs, then Shafts. Containment, here, did not fail. And the engine casing could be inch thick Titanium, but it most likely wouldn't "contain" a disc, anyway. The safest a/c would have enough useful load for only a few passengers, all other mass would be "Containment".

edit. If the AD mandatory maintenance is insufficient as written, there will be a new AD

Has anyone else noticed a slight alteration of the geometry of the engine? it looks (to me) as though the pylon has sagged.

bear

[Lemain]

misd-agin

JenCluse - 767 glide ratio is approx. 18:1. Wingletted 737/757 are probably 19+:1. 787 is over 21:1

Learned on a glider that was 14:1. Even the 727 was a better glider!

But you wouldn't want to dead-stick into, say, LHR?

Or land with uncontrollable asymmetric thrust? (the point in question in the thread)?

[bearfoil]

My hang glider was 6:1, most SEL are maybe 8-9:1, etc.

Mike X: Are you aware PW is suing to restrain further import of TRENT 900/1000? Their claim is Patent infringement, but it will delay the 787 perhaps another six months.

(Or Longer)

bear

[RatherBeFlying]

Has anyone else noticed a slight alteration of the geometry of the engine? it looks (to me) as though the pylon has sagged.

The gap between the LPT and HPT housings seems a bit narrower on the bottom (assuming the entire IPT housing is AWOL) , perhaps because of greater weight behind the LPT housing mounts.

[pct085]

Oil where oil shouldn't be

The report from Qantas that they've found "oil where oil shouldn't be" is an interesting outcome. I'm sure RR will love to take a close look at those engines. It will also be interesting to see if Singapore and Lufthansa re-inspect their engines for this specific issue. While they have "inspected" their engines, that does not mean they have inspected for this particular problem.

Of course it might be something specific to the Trent 972 or to something in Qantas operations that accentuate a vulnerability in the engine. But without knowing the specifics of Singapore & Lufthansa's inspections, I would hope the current push is to ensure the airworthiness of the whole engine family (970 & 972) - especially given Singapore & Lufthansa's quick return to flight.

[threemiles]

The 970 and 972 are identical by mechanical design. It is just a computer program in the FADEC that enables higher thrust on the 972.
This is the current marketing scheme of all engine manufacturers. You buy thrust.

[DevX]

Not so threemiles, R-R simply use a DEP (Data Entry Plug) to alter the rating of their engines. Also, the correct description for the unit in question is 'EEC', not 'FADEC', check the ser.no. plate on a unit next time you come across one.

[blind pew]

I would be interested to know whether the design philosophy is any different to the DC 10 where all of the essential cables and wires are routed down a single area?

Remember Souix City were an uncontained engine 2 failure took out all three hydraulic systems.
It wasn't the first one as another operator lost two systems with a similar failure - fortunately just after they had reduced to climb thrust.

It always amazed me the dumb philosophy as same lines were routed together on the inboard side of the main gear bays.

On the extended range series they bolted a 1/8th inch perforated stainless steel sheet to protect them!

Hang Glider 8-1
we are getting 10+ to 1 out of paragliders
and 60+ to 1 out of the latest gliders (german of course)

[Perf Init]

"You knew Flt. Capts' that BOUGHT the beer ??"

Trent 900
All the Trent 900 p-plant issues should provide "good hazmat revenue" for the 747 freight operators that are hauling these carcasses on the main deck !

ANY UNCONTAINED ENGINE FAILURE - NOT GOOD

SKYbrary - Uncontained Engine Failure

[forget]

Bearfoil.

Are you aware PW is suing to restrain further import of TRENT 900/1000? Their claim is Patent infringement, but it will delay the 787 perhaps another six months. (Or Longer)

Can you support this claim with facts? Something in your choice of words tells me it's bolleaux.

[Nemrytter]

Forget, check this:
Pratt & Whitney sues Rolls-Royce, seeks Trent 1000 import ban

[forget]

Thanks. Something very odd there on the 'restrain further import'. Does PW have a US Patent but not UK? US Patent Office being kindly with US applicants -- again?

[enkei]

Don't worry, RR is countersuiing, saying it holds the patent for the fan blade design. (what I picked up from a quick read).

[ILS27LEFT]

EASA AD No.: 2010-0008R1 04 AUG 2010

As I said before: from Directive
EASA AD No.: 2010-0008R1 04 AUG 2010
on RB211 Trent 900 series engines, all marks, all serial numbers.


"Rearward movement of the IP turbine would enable contact with static
turbine components and would result in loss of engine performance with
potential for in-flight shut down, oil migration and oil fire below the LP
turbine discs prior to sufficient indication resulting in loss of LP turbine disc
integrity. Some of these conditions present a potential unsafe condition to
the aeroplane.
This AD requires inspection of the IP shaft coupling splines and,
depending on the results, requires further repetitive inspections or
corrective actions"

Oil migration mentioned in the Directive goes perfectly in line with the recent results of QF inspections (Oil leaks).

Clear to me.