Yemeni Aircraft Bomb Plot Foiled
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BBC News - Air freight from Yemen and Somalia banned
Horse, door, stable, bolted, etc.
I honestly wonder what motivates these decisions.
"OMG, somebody put a bomb INSIDE something, well lets ban the thing that they put the bomb into, that'll solve the problem"
Let's just skip a few steps and arrive at the logical conclusion as determined by current security process - ban people and cargo from all flights - problem solved.
Toner cartridges over 500g will also be banned from hand baggage on UK flights
Horse, door, stable, bolted, etc.
I honestly wonder what motivates these decisions.
"OMG, somebody put a bomb INSIDE something, well lets ban the thing that they put the bomb into, that'll solve the problem"
Let's just skip a few steps and arrive at the logical conclusion as determined by current security process - ban people and cargo from all flights - problem solved.
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[QUOTE=rgbrock1;6032025]The senders of the "package" had no idea on how it would be routed with the ultimate destination being the U.S.
They know now. Exactly.
And will probably plan their next action based on what they've learned. Using different routings. [QUOTE]
How are they going to use different routings? You've already stated they had no idea which route would be used so they won't know if the same one will be used again or not. And anyway they can't pick and choose which way it goes once it's been checked in (or whatever it's called in freightland).
It also begs the question of why they would need to know the exact routing if they are going to use a different one next time? Also why would they care which route it took as long as it got to it's destination?
But ultimately, if it was a dry run, they have just alerted the entire world to the method they would be using for the 'real thing'. Gun, foot, shoot.
Stupid quote thingy
They know now. Exactly.
And will probably plan their next action based on what they've learned. Using different routings. [QUOTE]
How are they going to use different routings? You've already stated they had no idea which route would be used so they won't know if the same one will be used again or not. And anyway they can't pick and choose which way it goes once it's been checked in (or whatever it's called in freightland).
It also begs the question of why they would need to know the exact routing if they are going to use a different one next time? Also why would they care which route it took as long as it got to it's destination?
But ultimately, if it was a dry run, they have just alerted the entire world to the method they would be using for the 'real thing'. Gun, foot, shoot.
Stupid quote thingy
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LSM:
What you are doing is looking at the trees and not the forest.
The senders of these packages are more concerned with reaction to a perceived event than anything else. HOW we react. HOW QUICKLY we react. WHAT is done in reaction, etc.
They'll use different routings in the future for the exact same reason.
In parts of the Infantry it's known as probing the enemies' defenses. First in one area, then another. See how he reacts. And adjust tactics accordingly.
For as evil as these people truly are, they are not stupid.
What you are doing is looking at the trees and not the forest.
The senders of these packages are more concerned with reaction to a perceived event than anything else. HOW we react. HOW QUICKLY we react. WHAT is done in reaction, etc.
They'll use different routings in the future for the exact same reason.
In parts of the Infantry it's known as probing the enemies' defenses. First in one area, then another. See how he reacts. And adjust tactics accordingly.
For as evil as these people truly are, they are not stupid.
The TSA, ...................... I just had a joke with them, and then got on the flight
Early in the start of the present so-called Security nonsense, a friend of mine - not a frequent traveller - turned up with a bottle of Scotch in his bag, admitted that he wasn't thinking, took it out, gave it to the guy with a playful pat on the shoulder and a merry quip, such as "be my guest, it's yours mate, enjoy a drink when you get home" or words and actions to that effect.
Left, Right, Left Right etc. you TOUCHED a Dept. of Homeland Security Govt. Agent !! - and he's now on a full Body Cavity Search list every time he goes near a US airport.
World's Gone Mad.
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cwatters Quote:Why the hell would the tracking number be useful in an operational sense?
Perhaps to help find the IP address of the computers used to track the packages on-line?
Perhaps to help find the IP address of the computers used to track the packages on-line?
Remember, Saudi Arabia broke the news of the plot, revealing the actual PACKAGE TRACKING NUMBERS
My question was, why would they (terrorists) need to link themselves to the payload by having themselves associated in anyway with something as identifiably unique as a TRACKING NUMBER, THAT ONLY THE ACTUAL TERRORIST WOULD HAVE??
If *I* was the terrorist, I would love to have the tracking numbers - to see that my stooge actually SENT the package (I would have someone else log on to Fed Ex/UPS and track it) from a tradecraft perspective however, I would not. I dont NEED to have them - I'll just watch the news for signs of boom.
The point I was trying to make was, having the actual tracking numbers means someone very very intimately involved in the EXECUTION phase, i.e. trigger man, bomb delivery guy etc.
This is supported by articles on IntelligenceOnline.com and other sources suggesting that Saudi Arabia has been actively infiltrating groups (Kinda like the FBI and the civil rights movement) So their man, blew the news when he was supposed to, after playing the game all the way up to delivery.
So in short, their man, went along, did what he was supposed to do, then sent the tracking number(s) to his handlers to allow a photo-op interception, burnishing the bona-fides of our Saudi allies.
Rgbrock... you may be reading too much into or giving these guys too much credit.
Besides, why expend valuable resources on a 'fact finding mission'?
Real bombs are relatively cheap - resources to deliver them are not.
You can 'test' just as well with a real bomb as a fake one.
This smells more like a cultured 'sting' operation with the trap sprung around budget/election time.
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I hear you RGB, but there are a million ways to get something from A to B, I just don't understand the reason why they would want to have a dry run. Just make a bomb and send it. Bang. That works because they've just proved it. They wouldn't need to adjust any tactics because what happens will be totally out of the blue, and effective.
I'm pretty sure by now that they'll know exactly what the reaction is going to be (useless and over the top but that's not the point).
I'm pretty sure by now that they'll know exactly what the reaction is going to be (useless and over the top but that's not the point).
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Tailstrike:
I may indeed be giving these "guys" too much credit BUT as distasteful and utterly reprehensible it is, it takes quite a "mind" to come up with the idea of using jet aircraft
as guided missiles. And flying those guided missiles into large buildings.
Know the enemy. In every way.
LSM: Who knows what these "people" think or how they think it. No one would have given much credence, back before 9/11, about using jet aircraft as guided missiles.
Yet it was done. Who knows what these crazies are plotting this time. But they are probing.
I may indeed be giving these "guys" too much credit BUT as distasteful and utterly reprehensible it is, it takes quite a "mind" to come up with the idea of using jet aircraft
as guided missiles. And flying those guided missiles into large buildings.
Know the enemy. In every way.
LSM: Who knows what these "people" think or how they think it. No one would have given much credence, back before 9/11, about using jet aircraft as guided missiles.
Yet it was done. Who knows what these crazies are plotting this time. But they are probing.
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...takes quite a "mind" to come up with the idea of using jet aircraft
as guided missiles. And flying those guided missiles into large buildings.
as guided missiles. And flying those guided missiles into large buildings.
Not rocket science, in fact no science at all.
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papertiger, you are absolutely right, but rather than have someone point out (correctly) that the FBI, CIA et al have better things to do than read Tom Clancy novels as a source for red herrings to chase, (the Cobra Event, notwithstanding see: Richard Preston) please see this
Bojinka plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Bojinka plot was well known to the community prior to Sept 11.
Bojinka plot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Bojinka plot was well known to the community prior to Sept 11.
The Bojinka plot (Arabic: بجنكة; Tagalog: Oplan Bojinka) was a planned large-scale terrorist attack by Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed to blow up twelve airliners[1] and their approximately 4,000 passengers as they flew from Asia to the United States. The term can also refer to a combination of plots by Yousef and Mohammed to take place in January 1995, including a plot to assassinate Pope John Paul II. Murad proposed to crash a plane into the CIA headquarters in Fairfax County, Virginia in addition to a plan to bomb multiple airliners, which leads credence that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed evolved this plot into the 9-11 airliner attacks.[2]
looks like that mobile circuit board doesnt even have a battery attached to it. so it wouldn't even have the power to operate the board and hence receive the call.
i like the way in which the media called it a 'simcard'.
nice
so does anyone here actually believe obama when he says it's a credible plot?
i like the way in which the media called it a 'simcard'.
nice
so does anyone here actually believe obama when he says it's a credible plot?
Ya know what they say?
HP printers are da bomb!
(I'll be here all week, try the veal chowder ... )
rg and patrick strike me as correct: this is evidence of a probe.
What is a bit more interesting to consider is the probes and attempts that have not been spotted ... yet.
I am not pleased that the public have been informed of how the Ex Gitmo guest was involved. At some point, people in the official word need to know how to STFU.
OPSEC
HP printers are da bomb!
(I'll be here all week, try the veal chowder ... )
rg and patrick strike me as correct: this is evidence of a probe.
What is a bit more interesting to consider is the probes and attempts that have not been spotted ... yet.
I am not pleased that the public have been informed of how the Ex Gitmo guest was involved. At some point, people in the official word need to know how to STFU.
OPSEC
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I am not pleased that the public have been informed of how the Ex Gitmo guest was involved. At some point, people in the official word need to know how to STFU.
In an open society. Information will ALWAYS come out (i.e. Wikileaks, Govt officials "Not authorized to speak to the media, etc")
The solution, as always, is to put disinformation out there - 'chaff' to you wwII boffin types.
So what? if this guy is 'outed'?
He was already outed when it was revealed they had the UPS/FedEx tracking #'s.
The value for revealing that HE was one of THEM is that it casts doubt on all the people that they currently have, it introduces SOME hesitancy and doubt, and plans unknown yet advanced may be delayed while parameters are rechecked and reassured. (giving us more time to catch them)
In any event, you cant talk ANY of the info at face value, you can only store it up, weigh it against incoming, often contradictory new info and update your decision matrix accordingly.
* If you are already grown up, kindly disregard
Tailstrike, in re your asterisk, and the the telephone pole sticking out of thine eye socket ... 
Revealing sources and methods is not good policy.
That said, tend to agree on your idea of chaffe here and there, even though such an approach risks tarring all output as chaffe.
Wait, we are discussing governments here.
No win situation.
Revealing sources and methods is not good policy.
That said, tend to agree on your idea of chaffe here and there, even though such an approach risks tarring all output as chaffe.
Wait, we are discussing governments here.
No win situation.
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Who takes printers/toners around?
I do. Or did 
Travelling barefoot and without underwear now is starting to chafe.
Oh,btw, boys and girls - you can say you heard it here first.
Come Jan 1, you will have to take the battery off your laptop and ship it seperately through the x-ray machine (Do try to not be in a hurry when going through security)
It will probably take more time than 300 mile drive now.
( 1/2 hr to park/return rental car, 2hrs inside, 1hr to retrieve your bits after fighting your way off the plane and the overloaded fatties, then get new rental car..)
My New Plan.
Iphone and android phone (on two networks for redundancy) with Remote Desktop software to access primary desktop over a tunneling connection.
Travelling barefoot and without underwear now is starting to chafe.
Oh,btw, boys and girls - you can say you heard it here first.
Come Jan 1, you will have to take the battery off your laptop and ship it seperately through the x-ray machine (Do try to not be in a hurry when going through security)
It will probably take more time than 300 mile drive now.
( 1/2 hr to park/return rental car, 2hrs inside, 1hr to retrieve your bits after fighting your way off the plane and the overloaded fatties, then get new rental car..)
My New Plan.
Iphone and android phone (on two networks for redundancy) with Remote Desktop software to access primary desktop over a tunneling connection.
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Am I the only one left wondering in the days of suicide bombers , how changing the regulations to only allow only accompanied hold freight packages from Yemen and other AQ states will make things any safer.
These individuals care not if they die in the process so I fail to see how these new measure will help in any way
These individuals care not if they die in the process so I fail to see how these new measure will help in any way
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The Bojinka plot was well known to the community prior to Sept 11.
), but my point is that the 9/11 scenario was not a complete bolt from the blue. In one of his books Richard Clarke says it was discussed (see: Threats about Airplanes as Weapons Prior to 9/11) but nothing specific was done wrt countermeasures.I just hope there's better 'war-gaming' going on nowadays, even involving wacko novels and movies if necessary. This can't be left to the DHS/TSA reacting with some non-sequitur as usual.
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Anyone here also have the feeling that rather than a dry run this might be the
"Hey, look over here, yes here, come see what we're doing with these parcels"
Meanwhile what they're really up to is occurring in a totally different arena and everyone is now fixated on cargo, toner cartridges and other such things.
IIRC, it was a requirement to remove laptop batteries at many airports until 1 or 2 years ago, well in Oz at least. Was actually wondering where that went the other day....
"Hey, look over here, yes here, come see what we're doing with these parcels"
Meanwhile what they're really up to is occurring in a totally different arena and everyone is now fixated on cargo, toner cartridges and other such things.
IIRC, it was a requirement to remove laptop batteries at many airports until 1 or 2 years ago, well in Oz at least. Was actually wondering where that went the other day....
@ Boomerang Butt,
I was thinking exactly the same thing as I watched the news unfold earlier this week...
The oldest trick in the book.. sleight-of-hand... "look here... while we do another thing under the table.."
Or perhaps it was not a dry-run and the devices failed to ignite (thankfully!!) due to some error on the terrorists part?
What I find most disturbing is that both parcels flew out of Yemen on QR passenger flights before transitioning to standard cargo flights..!!
I was thinking exactly the same thing as I watched the news unfold earlier this week...
The oldest trick in the book.. sleight-of-hand... "look here... while we do another thing under the table.."
Or perhaps it was not a dry-run and the devices failed to ignite (thankfully!!) due to some error on the terrorists part?
What I find most disturbing is that both parcels flew out of Yemen on QR passenger flights before transitioning to standard cargo flights..!!