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British Airliner strays into Israeli airspace

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British Airliner strays into Israeli airspace

Old 28th Oct 2010, 09:20
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British Airliner strays into Israeli airspace

.... and has near miss with IAF F16 Hawk, according to this article in NYCaviation.com:

A British passenger plane strayed into Israeli airspace after taking off from Egypt and nearly collided with an Israeli Air Force fighter jet, the Israeli military said on Tuesday.

According to the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) spokesperson’s office, the near-accident happened on September 25 when a Europe-bound British plane took off from Sharm el-Sheikh and shortly afterward, it suddenly strayed north, crossing 13 miles (20 kilometers) into Israeli airspace.

Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported that the fighter was an F-16 Hawk, but details regarding the identity of the airliner remain a mystery.

The British plane, that was under the authority of Egyptian air traffic controllers, strayed north into Israeli airspace “without co-ordination or approval.” The Israeli military said Israeli air traffic controllers prevented a collision.

A complaint was filed with the Egyptian civil aviation authority.
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 09:46
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Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported that the fighter was an F-16 Hawk, but details regarding the identity of the airliner remain a mystery.
So... the F-16 was close enough for a collision, yet, could read the G number, but not the rest of the reg or the logo.. ?
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 10:21
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Do they not have area radar?
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 10:38
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Radar coverage is improving in Egypt but not universal. Coupled with very bad radio transmissions from some centers (readback/hearback errors), and lack of SID's - often just instructions to turn to intercept radial XXX to YYY - if the crew gets the radial wrong (330 instead of 300 for example) I can see this happening quite easily....
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 10:41
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HEATHROW DIRECTOR,

Radar in N. Africa can be very unreliable and their controllers also.
Sorry for the generalisation however, it has been my experience of operating there.
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 10:47
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Originally Posted by HD
Do they not have area radar
- you're having a laugh? Sometimes it seems that they do not have a radio
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 12:01
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Maybe they were "just testing", like KAL 007.
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 13:46
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Quote:
Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported... ...the identity of the airliner remain a mystery.
So... the F-16 was close enough for a collision, yet, could read the G number, but not the rest of the reg or the logo.. ?
Why do we have such ignorant posters on here who fail, spectacularly, time and time again, to understand that the "mystery" of the airline involved is to the newspaper and not the authorities involved!

So, now we have a post that will attract umpteen other ignorantii to add their myopic and pathetically uneducated understanding of the differences between what the media report and what really happens in the real world. Can we not have these posters iLobotomised or something similar so as to prevent their cancerous and spittle covered distractions ruining what could become an interesting thread?

In order to assist those with the inability to comprehend the difference between what is written by a media luvvie and what happens here on earth, perhaps someone should try and explain it with even barer facts. Let's have a go shall we?
On September 25th, a Europe bound British aircraft (not necessarily UK registered) departed Sharm el Sheik. At some stage, the a/c strayed 13 miles (20km) into Israeli airspace where it posed a collision risk with some Israeli Air Force F16's which were involved in an exercise.

The a/c was under Egyptian ATC at the time. An investigation is under way and a complaint was sent to the Egyptian CAA.
There... No need for the rabid thread drift with inane comments about IAF pilots eyesight and follow-on near orgasmic posts about who is right and who is wrong in the way this has been reported so far.
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 13:52
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Exclamation Nothing

Twas nothing, to indicate that the IAF didn't know who it was, is a diplomatic way of saying "we know you're there, gotcha, but we ain't gonna total ya". There is full radar coverage of all of Isreali airspace, plus the Egytian, Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanian, Cypriot & some Turkish, & I would guess a way bit further. No probs, just a bit of finger trouble inputting the CFP co-ords into the box
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 14:07
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Let me get this right

If you stray into Israel airspace,you are in greater danger of colliding with an IAF F16 than getting shot down by it...
Maybe the world is slowly becoming a better place
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 15:41
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@ leftseatview: perhaps they were using it as an euphemism for the collision with the missiles carried by same F16..
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 15:49
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Why all the anti-Israel remarks? It seems that the crew of a UK-registered aircraft lost situational awareness and entered militarily-sensitive airspace. Interception is a procedure known and understood by all professional pilots. It is obvious that that would take place if there was no radio contact with the controlling authority.

Frankly the Egyptian radar "service" is likely to provide poor control, and one should always be cross-checking position and ground clearance when in their airspace.
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 16:38
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So, now we have a post that will attract umpteen other ignorantii to add their myopic and pathetically uneducated understanding of the differences between what the media report and what really happens in the real world. Can we not have these posters iLobotomised or something similar so as to prevent their cancerous and spittle covered distractions ruining what could become an interesting thread?
I like a man who isn't afraid to use understatement
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 16:42
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It seems I still like to ask questions that can't be answered but here it is:

How would the situation have developed / ended if this was an Iranian /Syrian airliner have been in the British' guys shoes?

Rwy in Sight
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 17:03
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Oh FFS! How about inserting the other 1,000 variables into the question before trying to stir up yet another inane and highly speculative circular debate with a loaded question like that.

It wasn't Syrian or Iranian and it wasn't coming from across a border with an enemy state and the crew were listening out on 121.5 and it didn't appear to make hostile moves or any of a million other possibilities. Admit the kind of question posed here just shows how sad some people are for hypothetical debate over an issue that is extremely likely to attract very polarised views from other ignorantii with little knowledge about how the whole system works.

Spare us the waffle and hypothesising and stick to known facts and plausible question.
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 17:25
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Mr Bloggs

It seems that the crew of a UK-registered aircraft lost situational awareness and entered militarily-sensitive airspace.
How do you know that? were you there? How do you know that Egyptian ATC wouldn't allow the a/c to turn on a suitable heading because of traffic in the area? How do you know that the Flight crew hadn't noticed that they were approaching Israeli airspace and told the Egyptians? There are a number of reasons that the aircraft 'was' in that air space.

For info - when I've flown from AMM to LHR with BMI or using TK to IST departure from rny 24 has always been followed by an immediate right turn and into Syrian airspace before a left turn into the Med. No going over the Golden Temple in Jerusalem. A similar approach is required for landing into AMM.
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 17:40
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Come on guys , get real........... What the hell is a modern airliner doing 'wandering' off course so much in a sensitive area ? If he was out of Sharm / Taba whatever , he most likley was supposedly heading for Al Arish ( which sometimes has a VOR going ) on the coast just off Gaza.
Either VERY poor FMC loading / VERY poor monitoring - situational awareness /failure to engage LNAV etc etc , OR has someone brought back the dear old 737-200 ?
must have been a special Page 3 girl that day !
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 22:48
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Grow up,
We know nothing of the weather or other variables. Why are comments made with insufficient data. I'd hate to fly with you lot
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Old 29th Oct 2010, 00:38
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Airliner slightly off course by a few miles. Reasons not yet known.
No danger. Situation resolved in the usual professional manner.

Press making a fuss - must be a slow news day.

<yawn>
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Old 29th Oct 2010, 06:51
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To be fair to the area controllers at Cairo, I have often found them to be more 'switched on' than some of their counterparts in some European countries. I agree that things can be done a little differently since when I used to fly into Cairo, they simply didn't use the published SIDs and STARs and outbounds from the 'resort' airfields (as previously mentioned) are often given radials to climb on etc.

When compared to their next door neighbour, Egypt has a far superior ATC system to Libya, so I think using the 'North African' generalisation is a bit unfair in this context anyway!
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