Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

US Air Marshals flee Brazil following arrest saga

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

US Air Marshals flee Brazil following arrest saga

Old 22nd Oct 2010, 15:35
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
Posts: 1,185
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
And the crew should not know who they are either - that could lead to a potential compromise. However, the times I've flown on US flights, the marsahlls couldn't have been more obvious.
That's probably a bit difficult.. When the crew see them being issued with their firearms..! Or, did you think that say American Air Marshals are allowed to keep there weapons in a foreign land!
Out Of Trim is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 15:41
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don't think Sky Marshalls have anything to do with the TSA Piltdown Man.
FAMS is supervised by the TSA, under the DHS.
Bruce Wayne is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 16:24
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,188
Received 382 Likes on 236 Posts
For Roger Dixon:

Care to read the article?

"The plane's crew asked air marshals to intervene."

What's this about American pathos?

I'd like to ask the professional air crew why they would feel a need to ask for air marshal help with a simple case of a rude passenger. If there isn't an air marshal on your flight, what are you to do, stand there and wring your hands? From the remarks I've seen in the CC forum, NO, that isn't what you do.

Anyone care to respond to my question?

rick 1128 seems to have a sensible anaylsis of the situation.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 16:37
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Anglia.
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why isn't the alleged drunken, belligerent woman standing in front of her husband, not naked but in chains.
Anybody on here been knocked back for a Marshall's job?
Avitor is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 16:44
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,188
Received 382 Likes on 236 Posts
Why isn't the alleged drunken, belligerent woman standing in front of her husband, not naked but in chains.
Why not have her stand in front of her husband naked and in chains? Might give the Brazilian media something to write about, and the Brazilian court something to do other than play games with people trying to do their jobs.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 17:08
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Brasil
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Might give the Brazilian media something to write about
Actually the American media is making far more of this than the Brazilian media, and the courts here have more than enough to do with murderers, drug dealers and corrupt politicians, thank you.

From what I read the signs were there that they were going to get really ******.
What did you read, if I may ask? I'm not trying to be funny, but from what is publicly available it's very hard to draw that sort of conclusion. The woman has very little sympathy here, so apart from the PF saying to the FAMs "Sorry for the delay but we are obliged to investigate complaints, have a nice trip home", I don't see how you make the leap to them being really ******.

TTFN
alemaobaiano is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 18:51
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: moon
Posts: 3,564
Received 89 Likes on 32 Posts
Why didn't they Taser her Ten times to teach her a lesson?
Sunfish is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 18:58
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lisbon
Age: 51
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If the skymarshalls had the authority to arrest the woman in their jurisdiction, then they must accept the Brasil authority jurisdiction to detail them.

It works both ways and it is not for the detained to be the judge.

Running away makes them criminals.
Joao da Silva is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 19:25
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 60
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
They could have waited until after landing and then shot her on the jetway.....don't I recall that happening in Miami. Donkeys...
rmac is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 20:33
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: CYZV
Age: 77
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Since when was an inebriated lady helping herself to another gin and tonic, however inappropriately, an "act of terrorism?"

Guess they got bored sitting around doing nothing. Another example of American pathos.
If they had taken a page from the Vancouver RCMP manual and tazered her to death, would it still have counted as American pathos? We deserve to know.
pigboat is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 21:04
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Doesn't seem to say anywhere that the 2 Marshalls were the only 2 on the flight hence someone using a stooge could find there were only 2 or 10 depending on a risk scenario done beforehand.
racedo is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 21:40
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: US
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think these guys had a very good reason to intervene with the whacked out drunk woman who happened to be a Brazilian judges wife. Justice in Brazil is a joke. Don't even go to that corrupt country. Barbados is much safer and saner. Skip the next summer olympics unless you can bring a gun for protection. The Brazilian government can not control their muggers so plan to be mugged. My friend just lost his 2,000 dollar watch there with a gun held to him. He was a crewmember so knew the risks.
p51guy is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2010, 23:15
  #33 (permalink)  
gtf
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Here today, elsewhere tomorrow
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This is probably one story we'll never read the end of... Too bad.

and the word of the wife of a Brazilian Judge OF COURSE trumps whatever two American law officers would say
The problem is, they didn't stick around to make their point. Curious to know whether it was their own initiative or they were told to get out.

Bad thing in all of this is, now the world knows, if a FAM has done something even remotely suspicious, throw them in jail first to keep them from leaving... Short term benefit for the FAMs here. But long term?
gtf is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2010, 00:10
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,558
Received 38 Likes on 17 Posts
There are some interesting jurisdictional questions:

Did the incident for which she was apprehended take place in Brazilian airspace?

Can the woman be charged under Brazilian law for actions aboard a US a/c outside Brazilian airspace?

Are the FAMs required to remain in Brazil to testify at the woman's trial if she happens to have been charged by Brazilian authorities?

Mind you, I am confident that if she is not charged in Brazil that the FBI will be only too happy to put the cuffs on her she happen to be found stateside -- and that the FAMs will show up to testify
RatherBeFlying is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2010, 05:30
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My friend just lost his 2,000 dollar watch there with a gun held to him. He was a crewmember so knew the risks.
Sounds like you keep great company... I like the the crewmember reference. This same sucker could have lost his watch or more in more than a dozen cities in the usa, was lucky to live through it.


WAKEUP air marshals have no power in other soverign countrys, same as a a ordinary person slapping handcuffs on another civilian. I personally think there should be international stanards.

Your idiot friend hopefully has better situal awareness in his aircraft than the playground it lost it's toy in.
grounded27 is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2010, 09:16
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Brasil
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Did the incident for which she was apprehended take place in Brazilian airspace?
Apparently not, the few reports here suggest that she was handcuffed for 5 hours, which would put the offence outside Brazilian airspace. However, if this woman posed a continued risk to flight safety the aircraft should have landed at the first suitable airport in Brazil to offload her and the FAMs. There were apparently 4 FAMs on the flight so protection would still have been available.

Can the woman be charged under Brazilian law for actions aboard a US a/c outside Brazilian airspace?
Yes, in this case the destination was a Brazilian airport. Brazil and the US have reciprocal agreements.

Are the FAMs required to remain in Brazil to testify at the woman's trial if she happens to have been charged by Brazilian authorities?
Not necessarily, if they had filed an official report they would probably not have to give evidence in court. However, fleeing the country makes it very easy for the defence.

My friend just lost his 2,000 dollar watch there with a gun held to him. He was a crewmember so knew the risks.
Obviously he didn't, as the advice from the State Department makes clear. "Travelers should "dress down" when outside and avoid carrying valuables or wearing jewelry or expensive watches." In 15 years living and working here I have never been the victim of any crime, yet in a 3 month stay in Boston I was mugged at knifepoint.

The reason the FAMs had their passports retained is quite simple. The woman filed a complaint of assault on arrival, and there was eyewitness testimony that excessive force was used during incident. How reliable such testimony was and who provided it is another matter, but the police were obliged to investigate both complaints, and to do so they required the presence of the FAMs. Fleeing raises the suspicion that there may have been a case to answer.

Some here are seriously overestimating the influence of a Federal judge and his ability to interfere in such cases. This woman is a typical self-important windbag type of Brazilian with an overinflated sense of her own importance who got what she deserved, but that doesn't mean that she or her husband have any leverage over criminal proceedings.

TTFN
alemaobaiano is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2010, 09:42
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Choroni, sometimes
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The two marshalls are just identified...

hetfield is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2010, 09:58
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: On the flightpath
Age: 61
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Presumably American marshalls travelling on international flights disembark with all the other passengers so as not to identify themselves, pass through the arrival country's passport and customs controls, and maybe have a period of rest before checking in for their return flight, and going back through airport security. How do they manage this if they have guns? Or do they go into a transit lounge? Surely they don't remain on the aircraft during its turnaround?
ConstantFlyer is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2010, 10:04
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 517
Received 306 Likes on 123 Posts
Do you really think it sensible to ask such questions, or to expect accurate answers?
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2010, 10:21
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: On the flightpath
Age: 61
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Fair point, Sallyann1234. I just don't see how armed marshalls can maintain anonymity - in which case the fact that they revealed themselves on the flight to Brazil through intervening is less serious.
ConstantFlyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.