Airbus lands short at Palermo
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Rumour has it that Windjet are planning to attach a poster under the co-pilots window saying "For 60,000 euros your son could be sitting here!"
It is a fitting monument to crap pay-to-fly companies everywhere.
It is a fitting monument to crap pay-to-fly companies everywhere.
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JATO
You know what? If a/c had JATO rockets, and an emergency system of activation (in windshear conditions at low altitude) - slow spool ups and low altitude windshears would be less of a worry. 
The JATO were deployed once by a copilot hitting the wrong button on approach. They said the noise was a lot more noticeable than the thrust.
The other time they used JATO was during the slide after a gear up landing doing pilot training in Acapulco at 3am. They only made things worse.
I believe they were the only airline to buy JATO.
GB
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What can we do to make pax behave better during evacs? Each accident has horror stories of people trying to shove luggage with them. Makes me cringe. Fine people after evacs for taking bags? Central lock the overhead bins and announce pre-evac? Crappy ideas, I know. Any better ones?
PS. Is there a stereotype? i.e. are some routes (Germans?) more disciplined at evacs than others....
PS. Is there a stereotype? i.e. are some routes (Germans?) more disciplined at evacs than others....
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about sudden need for power.
The only way I could see for modern engines (high BPR, relatively large engine diameter) to have emergency power available within the blink of an eye would be with the aid of some sort of hydrazine backup system which could deliver such sudden powersurge almost instantly.
There would be issues however with the volatilety and toxicity of it being on board an airliner on a permanent base, maybe only enough for a 1 time kick in the pants option, and that's it.
There would be issues however with the volatilety and toxicity of it being on board an airliner on a permanent base, maybe only enough for a 1 time kick in the pants option, and that's it.
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@kbrockman
There was intended to be a hydrazine fuelled APU fitted to Concorde for use at airports that didn't have air start available. That idea was thrown out when one day a drop of hydrazine leaked and left a crater in the hangar floor.
I don't think that would be a good idea to fit hydrazine powered anything to RPT aircraft.....
There was intended to be a hydrazine fuelled APU fitted to Concorde for use at airports that didn't have air start available. That idea was thrown out when one day a drop of hydrazine leaked and left a crater in the hangar floor.
I don't think that would be a good idea to fit hydrazine powered anything to RPT aircraft.....
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Evac with baggage
Before we could get out of the aircraft several passengers blocked the exits for quite a few minutes because they wouldn't leave their hand baggage behind.
What can we do to make pax behave better during evacs? Each accident has horror stories of people trying to shove luggage with them. Makes me cringe. Fine people after evacs for taking bags? Central lock the overhead bins and announce pre-evac? Crappy ideas, I know. Any better ones?
An all-airline policy that hand baggage will be retrieved and returned at the very earliest opportunity, if announced in every safety briefing might go someway to reducing what goes down slides.
In the wake of the Heathrow Terminal 5 opening, in which we saw 'unidentified' baggage being sent to Italy and auctioned off, despite items inside which were clearly traceable to their owners, very few passengers believe that the safety and security of their baggage is of as much concern to airlines and airport operators as it is to themselves.
Inability of turbine engines to respond to urgent power demands
This leads me to question the inability of turbine engines to respond to urgent power demands. Some are better than others but they all take too long to spool up in this kind of situation.
The problem is they have no propellers to speed the airflow over the wings. You have to wait for the whole aircraft to increase speed before you get any more lift.
Of course, you could always land at full noise like they do on the aircraft carriers... Imagine the whiplash claims down the back when they hit the arrester wires :-)
Tell you what: Let's mandate "longer, wider runways" for RPT, and "Navaids down = airport closed". Simple, low-tech, proven solutions.
Wouldn't work so well at my home airport: SYD is owned by an investment bank: they would only spend money if it created an opportunity to install more shops...
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2 days ago (9 june 2011), I've landed in Palermo and I saw the A320 still standing next to the runway. Completely painted white.
I mean, I know it is obviously very bad publicity, but hey, if you want to avoid it, then don't crash and if you do, then face the consecuences (bad publicity should be the least of your worries IMHO)
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A modern turbine goes from flight idle to full power in close to one second. No piston engine does much better!
Overhead bins should be locked. Just as well there was no fire.
Perhaps PAX are doing this impulsively and if reminded of the hazard would refrain?
It's always amusing to read technical redesign suggestions in threads like this, but flat out incorrect factual statements like below need to be contested.
ANCIENT GREEK: A modern turbine goes from flight idle to full power in close to one second.
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I've never been through an evac as a PAX but does the CC even mention this in a pre-evac briefing? Maybe there need to be more reminders about "Leave bags behind"
Perhaps PAX are doing this impulsively and if reminded of the hazard would refrain?
Perhaps PAX are doing this impulsively and if reminded of the hazard would refrain?
Be lucky
David
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In my experience as reasonable high time S.L.F. Most pax ignore safety announcements especially the pre recorded ones. My last flight a quick look round showed approx 10-15% actually looking at the screens. So not a lot of hope there.
On a lighter note, PAX sure are surprisingly rational sometimes: On the Hudson river ditching incident I don't remember too many bags on the wings. Maybe PAX decided their bags would be safer in the dry cabins than out in the Hudson.
Dir. PPRuNe Line Service
ANCIENT GREEK: A modern turbine goes from flight idle to full power in close to one second. No piston engine does much better!
PPD
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is it usual to paint them so that the other passengers can not see which company it belongs to?
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I guess there was a bit of a leak of info.
"17/11/2010
September 24th air accident in Palermo: disclosure of CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) contents – the ANSV (Agenzia nazionale per la sicurezza del volo, Italian flight safety agency) position
Referring to the information reported by the press, relative to the partial contents of the CVR of the A319, registration marks EI-EDM, involved in the accident occurred in Palermo on September 24th, ANSV – with no intent to comment on the reliability of the information, as its investigation is still undergoing – remarks nevertheless that the disclosure of CVR contents contravenes international regulations provisions on the matter (Annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, relative to safety investigations). ANSV therefore, as in similar previous circumstances, reserves to take all initiatives in order to protect the content of CVRs, which shall be used with the sole objective of prevention within the limits indicated in the above mentioned Annex 13"
"17/11/2010
September 24th air accident in Palermo: disclosure of CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) contents – the ANSV (Agenzia nazionale per la sicurezza del volo, Italian flight safety agency) position
Referring to the information reported by the press, relative to the partial contents of the CVR of the A319, registration marks EI-EDM, involved in the accident occurred in Palermo on September 24th, ANSV – with no intent to comment on the reliability of the information, as its investigation is still undergoing – remarks nevertheless that the disclosure of CVR contents contravenes international regulations provisions on the matter (Annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, relative to safety investigations). ANSV therefore, as in similar previous circumstances, reserves to take all initiatives in order to protect the content of CVRs, which shall be used with the sole objective of prevention within the limits indicated in the above mentioned Annex 13"
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I am not sure that the spool up time from idle to 100%N1 is relevent. Final approach N1 is about 57%. How long does it take to firewall from here? Fairly quick I would suggest. At some stage someone has got to command additional thrust sources. That takes time during a period of high activity.
