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UPS Aircraft Down In Dubai

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UPS Aircraft Down In Dubai

Old 21st Sep 2010, 23:46
  #621 (permalink)  
 
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@TheWanderer
"Reliability or functionality of UAV is competely irrelevant, if one is unable to program or reprogram it."

Well that depends on the nature of the program I suppose. Anyway, on the types I operate, it would be much more convenient to don the blindfold and then trip over the datalink power supply cable. On loss of comms, home it comes. Of course we can make it do other tricks, and indeed it doesn't need the datalink at all anyway. Perhaps after having tripped over and still with blindfold, I could use my cellphone to call a friend, the datalink is networked via cellnet and satellite, so any friend anywhere in the world with the ground-station software will do. Then again, we are working to develop voice command, "I think you said, Return to Home, is that correct?"
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Old 21st Sep 2010, 23:59
  #622 (permalink)  
 
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Out of interest Resar40, are you a pilot?
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 01:02
  #623 (permalink)  
 
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@ernestkgann
Non-current commercially trained, recreational pilot and professional research engineer. I am also interested in social dynamics of knowledge hierarchy. My professional and social network spans leading scientific PhD types, big aero r&d, airline and military pilots through to sport, recreational and experimental.
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 02:21
  #624 (permalink)  
 
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Apologies for the thread drift. A casual observation would suggest you're too smart to be a professional pilot with those interests! Does a UAV operator regard themselves as a pilot and with that all the inherent considerations that go with operating machinery outside the boundaries of 'normal' human physiological circumstances. I wonder if the psychological differences between UAV operators and pilots create differences of opinion about what is acceptable and what is not when it comes to the conduct of aviation in its different forms.
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 02:35
  #625 (permalink)  
 
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@ernestkgann
All good grounds for research and discussion. In any case, it is happening, perhaps a new thread would be appropriate, or you could direct me to an existing one.
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 02:54
  #626 (permalink)  
 
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The esteemed owners of this site may have to make an appropriate venue on these boards for UAV people. You will find that part of the psychology of pilots is the actual flying, remove that and there isn't much desire in that group to participate.
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 02:57
  #627 (permalink)  
 
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Ah, well there are plenty of UAV sites. I don't want to talk about UAVs here. The point of interest is to look at how Autopilot technology can be used.

As I said earlier, it need not be seen as usurping the pilot's role.
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 03:11
  #628 (permalink)  
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I wonder if the psychological differences between UAV operators and pilots create differences of opinion about what is acceptable and what is not when it comes to the conduct of aviation in its different forms.
It's the difference between ham and eggs.

The chicken's involved.

The pig's committed.....
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 03:17
  #629 (permalink)  
 
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Fair enough. There is a lot of discussion at the moment that centres around automations role in reducing piloting ability and particularly manual flying wrt the ability to recover from inappropriate automation use and the the loss of knowledge, manual flying ability and experience. LCCs use automation in modern aircraft to employ lower experienced pilots. No doubt the advent of remotely piloted aircraft fits in there somewhere and as a group we are nearing the cross roads of the benefits of automation versus human/manual flying.
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 06:03
  #630 (permalink)  
 
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Only as written. My agenda is to discuss safety, effectiveness and general enhancement of systems using contemporary technology.
I would wonder why the risk of hitting a UAV is so significant. If it is a genuine risk (not a psychological artifact) then there may be a systemic or other factor to be addressed. For example (and this clearly applies to manned AC) it is well known that modern precision navigation systems can cause increased collision risks due to that very precision. Would you blame the technology?
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 08:53
  #631 (permalink)  
 
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This is now way off track from the original intent of the post, for that I apologise. LCCs can use far less experienced pilots now because at first glance, they are easier to fly using automation, fbw and modern aircraft systems. Have a look in the cockpit of a Super Connie and ask whether a 200 hr co-pilot would be useful. Easy Jet, Ryanair and many others use this technology to keep their passengers safe while driving down their cost base by out sourcing training and employing low experience pilots, amongst other things. Their CEOs suggest that they only need one pilot, the Stewardess' can help if a non-normal requires. With the outsourcing of training and the pay to fly style of endorsement comes poor training. Why would it be different if there is no 'buy in' to the positive results from a training course. Does it matter if the candidate has only a superficial knowledge of the system he or she is being endorsed on?
Captain Sullenberger spoke at length about crew experience and the changes that are now constant in the industry.
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 17:52
  #632 (permalink)  
 
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Huck :
I wonder if the psychological differences between UAV operators and pilots create differences of opinion about what is acceptable and what is not when it comes to the conduct of aviation in its different forms.

It's the difference between ham and eggs.
The chicken's involved.
The pig's committed.....
I like that one. It is obvious to pilots.

Now, the following observations exist regardless of current or prospective technology :

For the pilot, one's own life is at stake and hangs on one's skillset.

For the operator, the only thing hanging on their skillset is their job security, and their life is never at risk.

That is one world of difference in the psychology of the relevant persons. It has far reaching effects on how one sees their activity. This goes way beyond mere pleasure of flying, although both aspects are probably more closely related than it would appear.

That is one world of difference in the meaning of the word 'trust' for actual or potential passengers.
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 22:42
  #633 (permalink)  
 
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I like it Huck, it was however, a rhetorical question.
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Old 22nd Sep 2010, 22:56
  #634 (permalink)  
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EKGann...forget about the Connie...try it on a "newer" A/C like the 727 or 737/200/300/400...Yes I know the 400 may come with CRT's, however that was an option that some airlines didn't employ...

Like to see a new F/O w/ 200 hrs and a brand new set of shiney stripes try to get one of those down when all hell breaks loose...

As for Resar, I think most of us have the picture...
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Old 23rd Sep 2010, 16:59
  #635 (permalink)  
 
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Thread Creep

Just a subtle creep, but...
Is there any further information on the subject matter - UPS AIRCRAFT DOWN IN DXB?
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Old 23rd Sep 2010, 18:32
  #636 (permalink)  
 
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GCAA reveals more details regarding the Crash of UPS Boeing 747 - 400 Cargo investiga

Detailed News
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Old 24th Sep 2010, 01:44
  #637 (permalink)  
 
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Dubai plane crash investigation focuses on cargo

Dubai plane crash investigation focuses on cargo - The National Newspaper

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Old 24th Sep 2010, 08:08
  #638 (permalink)  
 
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UPS 747 Cockpit Doors

Actually NONE of the UPS 747s have cockpit doors. There is a door at the top of the stairs entering the upper deck, but only a curtin between the cockpit and the jumpseat area. The curtin, in fact, is requirred to be open for all takeoff and landings!
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Old 24th Sep 2010, 11:45
  #639 (permalink)  
 
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Urgent call for fire suppression on cargo aircraft!

I have already posted this on the Freight Dog Forum, but felt that it was relevant to this thread...

It is looking very likely that the UPS cargo aircraft that came down in DXB had a fire in the main deck hold. I am appauled that to this day, there is still no regulatory mandate for cargo aircraft to have fire suppression in their main deck holds (Only required in the lower FWD and AFT holds). I would have thought that after two recent previous events which resulted in hull losses due to fire (FedEx 1406 and UPS 1307), the FAA would start taking this matter very seriously. What will it take for things to change?
I have appealed to the FAA to mandate fire suppression in main deck holds and I urge you all to do the same!
It is worth noting that the NTSB have called for this change through recommendations several times! The FAA responded in a letter two days after the UPS accident in Dubai (Coincidental), apparantly stating it would be too expensive!

I salute FedEx for taking the initiative to install fire suppressant to their cargo fleet. I implore you all to press the regulators for this to be standard as soon as possible before more lives are lost. Not just to pilots but to the general public on the ground.

Why should passenger carrying aircraft be given stricter regulation over cargo aircraft?

Class E to Class C ASAP!!!
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Old 24th Sep 2010, 11:49
  #640 (permalink)  
 
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FedEx Fire suppression!

Please look at this video...

Industry First Onboard Automatic Fire Suppression System | FedEx Global Newsroom

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