Jetblue Airbus blows tires/ EVAC at Sacramento
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protectthehornet,
Most of the times I tend to agree with your comments but I cannot believe you actually believe on this one:
which I find quite incredible. First of all, because if one "plays" with the parking brake switch in the air, it will activate the Master Caution and the ECAM will display "Parking Brake On" (if memory serves me well). There is no chance to unintentionally leave the Parking Brake switched On, except if one intentionally pushes the ECAM "Emergency Clear" push-button to make it disappear from the WD/SD and latter on forgets to "Recall" it or switch the Parking Brake to Off...
If this was the case, those pilots could be facing serious consequences... and without a prelim report, I really prefer to believe that something else must have happened before launching some sort of anathema against our colleagues of profession.
Most of the times I tend to agree with your comments but I cannot believe you actually believe on this one:
first off, my friend, an airbus guy, says that maybe the crew was fooling around with the parking brake switch in flight.
If this was the case, those pilots could be facing serious consequences... and without a prelim report, I really prefer to believe that something else must have happened before launching some sort of anathema against our colleagues of profession.
Last edited by aguadalte; 27th Aug 2010 at 20:24.
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Through the eyes of a veteran of 38 years (NOT Jetblue).
Traffic was two Brasilias, an RJ and a 757. 16R was closed and may still be.
If PTH wanted to wait for airstairs, he'd still be waiting. I won't be specific out of respect for the crew, but there was substantial damage to the a/c. BTW, had PTH been there to greet the Captain, as he exited and questioned the propriety of his command he would have risked a PITN. When I started my conversation with said airline professional (as yet not permitted to get too specific), I explained PTH's POV.
"Excuse Me? You're joking?"
sorry Hornet, reconsider.
Traffic was two Brasilias, an RJ and a 757. 16R was closed and may still be.
If PTH wanted to wait for airstairs, he'd still be waiting. I won't be specific out of respect for the crew, but there was substantial damage to the a/c. BTW, had PTH been there to greet the Captain, as he exited and questioned the propriety of his command he would have risked a PITN. When I started my conversation with said airline professional (as yet not permitted to get too specific), I explained PTH's POV.
"Excuse Me? You're joking?"
sorry Hornet, reconsider.
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isn't it a bit odd, most every airline I've heard of shows a nice little film about brake fires/tire fires etc. Done perhaps by boeing during testing. No one ever panicked and hit the slides
YouTube - Airbus A340-600 Rejected Take-Off test (subtitles)
Fire = evacuate
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Bearfoil...if you truly have spoken with the captain of the plane in question, I hope you asked HIM if HE ordered the evacuation, or if it just started in the back.
PITN I take is punch in the nose. Well, from what I have seen the plane is intact, the tires are flat. the plane looks fine with no other fire damage.
I stand by what I said before. Now, if he had special information, not available to us who just watch tv or read the papers, fine.
AS to aquadalte's comment. I was just offering what my airbus pilot friend said...I don't claim to know the 'bus. I took a substantial pay cut to avoid flying the bus and I'm still glad I did.
One has to wonder about the whole evacuation...if it started with the captain, that's one thing...but if it started in back...you gotta wonder if the engines had been shut down by the time the first pax were tumbling down the slide.
bearfoil, if you would like to PM me with more info that you can't tell us here, fine. If not, I see a plane that is upright, not consumed by fire, fully intact except for flat tires ( plural).
I'd like to think SMF has portable emergency stairs...but if they don't, let us know. Later a baggage loader was placed to access the plane.
jet blue, is famous for not having portable stairs anywhere...remember the valantine's day debacle of a few years ago?
PITN I take is punch in the nose. Well, from what I have seen the plane is intact, the tires are flat. the plane looks fine with no other fire damage.
I stand by what I said before. Now, if he had special information, not available to us who just watch tv or read the papers, fine.
AS to aquadalte's comment. I was just offering what my airbus pilot friend said...I don't claim to know the 'bus. I took a substantial pay cut to avoid flying the bus and I'm still glad I did.
One has to wonder about the whole evacuation...if it started with the captain, that's one thing...but if it started in back...you gotta wonder if the engines had been shut down by the time the first pax were tumbling down the slide.
bearfoil, if you would like to PM me with more info that you can't tell us here, fine. If not, I see a plane that is upright, not consumed by fire, fully intact except for flat tires ( plural).
I'd like to think SMF has portable emergency stairs...but if they don't, let us know. Later a baggage loader was placed to access the plane.
jet blue, is famous for not having portable stairs anywhere...remember the valantine's day debacle of a few years ago?
Mistrust in Management
Protecttehornet
I'm awaiting your response regarding the Airtours accident in Manchester.
In my view you have posted comments that are untrue - no problem to me personally but other readers may believe them to be true which in my opinion is unacceptable.
Regards
Exeng
In my view you have posted comments that are untrue - no problem to me personally but other readers may believe them to be true which in my opinion is unacceptable.
Regards
Exeng
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Whether germane here or not, I do see a rationale in PTH's stubbornness. It may not be modern, but once upon a time, The Captain ruled the roost. His was the call, he ate crow or drank freebies depending on his judgment, no music while he thinks, no "call a friend", or "ask the audience".
Because it may be perceived safest, maybe current command rests a little too heavily on "the odds". I heard Hank say once, "Safety? Shmafety, I don't think about safety. Frankly I don't need to think, All I need to do is the right thing, every time, immediately."
Of course it's an exaggeration, modern reality wants the "Nuance" right?
bear
Because it may be perceived safest, maybe current command rests a little too heavily on "the odds". I heard Hank say once, "Safety? Shmafety, I don't think about safety. Frankly I don't need to think, All I need to do is the right thing, every time, immediately."
Of course it's an exaggeration, modern reality wants the "Nuance" right?
bear
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PTH...IMHO you know not of what you speak...You quote references and sources, yet you give no links or references at all...If your mind-set for this thread is your attitude and belief, please let me know which Airline you work for (if any) so I can avoid flying on them...
You sound like one of those "After 100 knots we will take it in the air and treat it like an IFE"..."Captains"...ie...a loser...ever heard of "V-1"?...On real Jets it's a lots more than 100 kts...
And when did California become the "largest" state in the USA???
Manchester was in the 70's, and WE all learned from that..Don't delay...evacuate...
BTW...less than 2 yrs on the Prune and you have almost 900 posts???
Oh-I forgot...you know it all and you're trying to "educate" your fellow pilots...(your words, not mine)...
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Down In three Green
you claim I don't know of what I speak.
California is the largest state in the USA in terms of population. Anyone disagree there??????
alaska of course in size, texas in ego (number two in size).
100 knots is a very critical time in the takeoff, though V1 is usually higher.
I am pretty sure you aren't a pilot though. I might be wrong there, but why else would you ask what airline I work for...you would only fly on YOUR airline if you were a pilot...its free remember?
California is the largest state in the USA in terms of population. Anyone disagree there??????
alaska of course in size, texas in ego (number two in size).
100 knots is a very critical time in the takeoff, though V1 is usually higher.
I am pretty sure you aren't a pilot though. I might be wrong there, but why else would you ask what airline I work for...you would only fly on YOUR airline if you were a pilot...its free remember?
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When I was a brand new captain on a 737 I believed unless it was the last resort I wouldn't evacuate because of the high chance of injuries. I got a positive bomb threat going to LAX one day with a brand new FO. The caller of the threat said it was set for 2500 ft on the descent. I called dispatch to see if Palmdale was above 2500 ft and while they were looking it up saw my cabin was at 100 ft so said I was going to continue into LAX since I was downwind already and had insufficient fuel for Reno. I said make sure the pushup stairs are available because the fwd airstairs are deferred as inop. They said ok. I landed and approaching the area to disembark passengers saw no pushup stairs so called ops and said where are they? They said we are working on it. I advised the FA's we were going to use all the slides with a full load of passengers. The chief asked why did you use the slides if nothing happened at 2500 ft? I said because bombs have non FAA approved altimeters and sometimes don't work unless you are patient and wait. Never heard any more but I felt sick knowing all those people were going down the slides for another false bomb threat.
Evacuating is a tough call sometimes. It is probably used more than necessary but I thought in my case if I had waited 20 minutes after parking for the stairs and it went off the FAA would fry me and I would be responsible for lost lives and injuries. It is a judgement call by the captain and I wouldn't second guess him if he went for getting the people out. Sim training usually has you call the tower and check for visual signs of fire before evacuating. Jet Blue probably did the same thing they did to pass their sim check.
Evacuating is a tough call sometimes. It is probably used more than necessary but I thought in my case if I had waited 20 minutes after parking for the stairs and it went off the FAA would fry me and I would be responsible for lost lives and injuries. It is a judgement call by the captain and I wouldn't second guess him if he went for getting the people out. Sim training usually has you call the tower and check for visual signs of fire before evacuating. Jet Blue probably did the same thing they did to pass their sim check.
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perhaps we can suggest that all airport fire rescue teams have a useable portable set of stairs in line after the fire engines approach a stricken plane.
P51 guy...that story sounds like a movie I saw...but they made denver.
P51 guy...that story sounds like a movie I saw...but they made denver.
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Guess what, the first thing I thought of was the movie when I was informed of the 2500 ft detonator. I knew our 737 couldn't go to Denver so since Reno would land us with zero fuel I chose Palmdale over the hill. At SJC I was walking around the airplane and saw nothing out of the ordinary so didn't think it would be in the wheel well. Knowing the cabin altitude was down the safest thing was to land at LAX. My brand new FO was flying so said be totally configured by 3,000 ft and land very gently. On the van ride back to SNA the driver had the radio on talking about our landing with the bomb threat. I told the FO you know you have had a rough day when the news is talking about your landing. I love that movie.
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I wish I could remember the name of that movie...I think van johnson was in it and it isn't shown very often.
bishop, california might have worked...if reno was zero fuel, its 200 miles closer...pretty high up too.
but you did the right thing...I guess the guy who called in the bomb threat lived in palmdale and knew the elevation (2543) and had seen the movie...maybe made a bet with a girl that he could make an air cal 737 land at palmdale.
all the best
bishop, california might have worked...if reno was zero fuel, its 200 miles closer...pretty high up too.
but you did the right thing...I guess the guy who called in the bomb threat lived in palmdale and knew the elevation (2543) and had seen the movie...maybe made a bet with a girl that he could make an air cal 737 land at palmdale.
all the best
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This was the movie in question... The Doomsday Flight (1966).
The Doomsday Flight (1966) (TV)
At the start of my career in the 1970s, I was told (FWIW) by an old-timer was the reason it's almost never shown is that every time it was, there was a spike a telephoned threats. That was based on the looney-to-normal person ratio back then, and I can't argue with the logic, given the larger number of loonies out there today...
The Doomsday Flight (1966) (TV)
At the start of my career in the 1970s, I was told (FWIW) by an old-timer was the reason it's almost never shown is that every time it was, there was a spike a telephoned threats. That was based on the looney-to-normal person ratio back then, and I can't argue with the logic, given the larger number of loonies out there today...
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thanks senior dispatcher for the movie info and the reason it isn't on tv more often.
barometric or altimetric bombs are nothing new of course. the A bomb over hiroshima was an ''airburst" triggered to explode in the sky and not on contact with the ground
and in the film , "failsafe" made before, "the doomsday flight", the H bombs were to be triggered at 8000'...the vindicators had gone below that before arming and would climb over their target and never release, killing themselves and destroying the target.
barometric or altimetric bombs are nothing new of course. the A bomb over hiroshima was an ''airburst" triggered to explode in the sky and not on contact with the ground
and in the film , "failsafe" made before, "the doomsday flight", the H bombs were to be triggered at 8000'...the vindicators had gone below that before arming and would climb over their target and never release, killing themselves and destroying the target.
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Somebody mentioned Autobrake; selecting the takeoff setting (3 as I recall) deliberately or otherwise would have given everyone a surprise 
We were warned that we should never select it for landing, it's function being to bring the aircraft to a halt in the shortest possible distance in the event of an RTO.
We were warned that we should never select it for landing, it's function being to bring the aircraft to a halt in the shortest possible distance in the event of an RTO.
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I'm just going to go back to the posts on page one about how they shouldn't have evacuated and waited for a safer way to get off like air stairs. He referred to British air tours. The people who died in the British air tour disaster died because they didn't get off fast enough. The smoke from the burning plastics was toxic. They made a good choice in evacuating.