Monarch-Engine fire Birmingham UK
Morale? When you finally decide to provide information, don't lie
But at any rate, calming words to the passengers after an event that upsets them is better than none
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Damned if you do.....
Morale? When you finally decide to provide information, don't lie.
Moral? Exaggerate. People seem to prefer to have been 'inches from death'.
KPBsen,
I don't know about "people". Your passengers are not a homogenous group, they consist of individuals, some ignorant, some not so ignorant and some bloody brilliant. An aircraft is put together by a lot of parts that are not unique to aeroplanes and there is a good possibility that some of your passengers has more than a fleeting relation with some of them. Being told white lies does not impress. As for "prefer to have been 'inches from death' ", not me, I'm immune.
Per
I don't know about "people". Your passengers are not a homogenous group, they consist of individuals, some ignorant, some not so ignorant and some bloody brilliant. An aircraft is put together by a lot of parts that are not unique to aeroplanes and there is a good possibility that some of your passengers has more than a fleeting relation with some of them. Being told white lies does not impress. As for "prefer to have been 'inches from death' ", not me, I'm immune.
Per
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Agnostique 75
could you please share with us the sociological explanation to the "codeword"
approach.
i am very interested in the SOP vs Free thinking debate,and it could sure do with this kind of background education
could you please share with us the sociological explanation to the "codeword"
approach.
i am very interested in the SOP vs Free thinking debate,and it could sure do with this kind of background education
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Quote:
On a slightly lighter note, I recall a Monarch Britannia skipper using the codewords "roost birdies" for cabin crew (in canary yellow and all female) seats for landing....don't suppose you would get away with it now though!
The correct phrase is: Birds to perches, but don’t expect any favours from the cc after saying it.
On a slightly lighter note, I recall a Monarch Britannia skipper using the codewords "roost birdies" for cabin crew (in canary yellow and all female) seats for landing....don't suppose you would get away with it now though!
The correct phrase is: Birds to perches, but don’t expect any favours from the cc after saying it.
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Dogs to their baskets??
perhaps in the event of an emergency situation a codeword could be replaced by a 'code-phrase' to alert crew and not upset pax...
maybe the announcement "anyone know how to fly a plane?"
anyone ?
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@CEJM -
I expect it's similar to the actions taken by our cabin crew. But at least our pax aren't busy looking round for escaped snakes...
Why are some of you Monarch boys so touchy?
Strikemaster82, you have obviously no idea what action are being taken by our cabin crew when they hear the code word.
Why are some of you Monarch boys so touchy?
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Code words and it being "always better" to tell the truth:
Look at Pprune: members of the group develop fantastic explanations based on partial information from ongoing investigations; these explanations often far exceed what actually happened, and exceed in the direction of the posters' firmly held beliefs about The Problems In Aviation.
So I must question whether partially informing passengers will calm them down. If they think they're going die, their bias will be to interpret every bit of information or non-information as "OMG we're all gonna die!"
Code words work well in all fields, and I'm sure someone has started screaming upon hearing "cross-check and report"
There's something inherently frightening about being crammed into an aluminum tube and shot through the air with no control (or forward vision). And if something interesting occurs, there's very little chance of briefing the passengers with details as they transpire. Yet the British tabloids will always find passengers who were upset they were kept in the dark, fearful of their lives, instead of being given the 'Captain's-Eye View' (which, of course, not even the captain had).
In fact, cultural factors also come into play. I've seen Mediterranean passengers greet a fiery compressor stall on go-around with derisive applause. I've also seen a British student complain that the train known as the 'Glacier Express' was "too cold and too slow."
Look at Pprune: members of the group develop fantastic explanations based on partial information from ongoing investigations; these explanations often far exceed what actually happened, and exceed in the direction of the posters' firmly held beliefs about The Problems In Aviation.
So I must question whether partially informing passengers will calm them down. If they think they're going die, their bias will be to interpret every bit of information or non-information as "OMG we're all gonna die!"
Code words work well in all fields, and I'm sure someone has started screaming upon hearing "cross-check and report"
There's something inherently frightening about being crammed into an aluminum tube and shot through the air with no control (or forward vision). And if something interesting occurs, there's very little chance of briefing the passengers with details as they transpire. Yet the British tabloids will always find passengers who were upset they were kept in the dark, fearful of their lives, instead of being given the 'Captain's-Eye View' (which, of course, not even the captain had).
In fact, cultural factors also come into play. I've seen Mediterranean passengers greet a fiery compressor stall on go-around with derisive applause. I've also seen a British student complain that the train known as the 'Glacier Express' was "too cold and too slow."
I hear via the aviation grape vine, that the AutoPilot would not engage. Proberbly for some "Airbus" reason. So the Cobra Crew did it the old fashioned way & flew the thing. Just like real pilots. Back to thread. "what's wrong with cobras"
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I heard this one from the flight deck once back in the 70s whilst traveling on an overseas airline
'Cabin crew the ground is coming up' thought it rather
funny at the time.
'Cabin crew the ground is coming up' thought it rather
funny at the time.
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I heard this one from the flight deck once back in the 70s whilst traveling on an overseas airline
'Cabin crew the ground is coming up' thought it rather funny at the time.
'Cabin crew the ground is coming up' thought it rather funny at the time.
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ZB932
As a passenger on ZB932 August 3, there are a few observations I would like to make after having had a week to process what happened.
Firstly, and before anything else, I need to express my appreciation of the skill and professionalism of the Pilots and the way the incident was handled. There seem to have been a number of whinges about lack of information from the flight deck, and it was indeed worrying to be aware that something was quite seriously wrong, but not to know what was going on, but in the first instance the crew's priority has to be to secure the situation. The PR has to be a secondary consideration until that is done.
As far as the "sensationalism in the press" is concerned, I think that is what we have all come to expect of the British media - it's what sells papers.
I was sitting on the opposite side to the engine that failed, slightly behind the wing and was fully aware of what was happening. The actual takeoff seemed a little sluggish (not the usual rush and roar down the runway) and it did appear that we were not climbing initially as steeply as I would have expected. Shortly after takeoff (we were still low enough to see people out in their back gardens as we flew over the houses) there was a loud noise from the left-hand side of the plane, quite different from anything I have experienced before, followed a moment or two later by a loud bang. At this point my daughter said "what was that, it looked like flames" and the girl who was sat across the aisle by the window on the left hand side went drip white and looked as though she might pass out. There was a final loud noise, the cabin lights failed and the plane lurched acutely and suddenly to the left. It was clear at that point, from the sudden dimunition of noise, that the engine had gone down.
What followed probably only lasted a matter of moments, while the pilot levelled the plane, but seemed to go on for ever. We then, at a very reduced rate climbed for a few minutes more until we reached a height at which the pilot presumably felt he had stabilised the position and came on the intercom to say I'm sorry folks, I daresay you've been wondering what's been going on, but it's been a bit busy up here on the flight deck - we've lost the left hand engine and are going to have to return to Birmingham.
Which, after a bit of wobbling about which drew a few collective gasps from the passengers, we duly did. The landing back at Birmingham was probably the smoothest landing I have experienced in all my years of flying (and before any Smart Alec wants to sneer at the opinion of a mere PAX - I first flew out of Heathrow on a Comet 4 in 1952, when the terminal buildings were still Nissan Huts, and have been travelling by plane regularly ever since).
There certainly was no instruction to the passengers, or anyone else, to brace for landing - that was absolute nonsense by the press. However, the Captain did say just after the engine failed, and long before he spoke to the passengers, Cabin Crew Code.... I did not catch the actual code, it was a series of numbers and would have meant nothing to me, but it was obvious from their demeanour that the Cabin Crew understood matters to be serious. I have absolutely no quarrel with him using such terminology to the crew - it is by far the most efficient way to instigate a procedure, and suggestions that this was done in order to keep passengers in the dark are quite as silly as any of the rubbish printed in the press last week.
In all, I would say that it was a bad situation, handled well, and whilst it is easy to say that pilots (and cabin crew) are trained to deal with situations like that, it is quite another matter to have to deal with it for real. My thanks to all those concerned.
It is just a shame, having got back to ground and with the passengers feeling hugely grateful both to Monarch and the crew that we were all still in one piece, that everything went , as my daughter put it "to hell in a handbasket". Our treatment once back at the Airport was nothing short of shameful and may well be the reason why the majority of those passengers never travel with Monarch again. But that is another story. . .
Firstly, and before anything else, I need to express my appreciation of the skill and professionalism of the Pilots and the way the incident was handled. There seem to have been a number of whinges about lack of information from the flight deck, and it was indeed worrying to be aware that something was quite seriously wrong, but not to know what was going on, but in the first instance the crew's priority has to be to secure the situation. The PR has to be a secondary consideration until that is done.
As far as the "sensationalism in the press" is concerned, I think that is what we have all come to expect of the British media - it's what sells papers.
I was sitting on the opposite side to the engine that failed, slightly behind the wing and was fully aware of what was happening. The actual takeoff seemed a little sluggish (not the usual rush and roar down the runway) and it did appear that we were not climbing initially as steeply as I would have expected. Shortly after takeoff (we were still low enough to see people out in their back gardens as we flew over the houses) there was a loud noise from the left-hand side of the plane, quite different from anything I have experienced before, followed a moment or two later by a loud bang. At this point my daughter said "what was that, it looked like flames" and the girl who was sat across the aisle by the window on the left hand side went drip white and looked as though she might pass out. There was a final loud noise, the cabin lights failed and the plane lurched acutely and suddenly to the left. It was clear at that point, from the sudden dimunition of noise, that the engine had gone down.
What followed probably only lasted a matter of moments, while the pilot levelled the plane, but seemed to go on for ever. We then, at a very reduced rate climbed for a few minutes more until we reached a height at which the pilot presumably felt he had stabilised the position and came on the intercom to say I'm sorry folks, I daresay you've been wondering what's been going on, but it's been a bit busy up here on the flight deck - we've lost the left hand engine and are going to have to return to Birmingham.
Which, after a bit of wobbling about which drew a few collective gasps from the passengers, we duly did. The landing back at Birmingham was probably the smoothest landing I have experienced in all my years of flying (and before any Smart Alec wants to sneer at the opinion of a mere PAX - I first flew out of Heathrow on a Comet 4 in 1952, when the terminal buildings were still Nissan Huts, and have been travelling by plane regularly ever since).
There certainly was no instruction to the passengers, or anyone else, to brace for landing - that was absolute nonsense by the press. However, the Captain did say just after the engine failed, and long before he spoke to the passengers, Cabin Crew Code.... I did not catch the actual code, it was a series of numbers and would have meant nothing to me, but it was obvious from their demeanour that the Cabin Crew understood matters to be serious. I have absolutely no quarrel with him using such terminology to the crew - it is by far the most efficient way to instigate a procedure, and suggestions that this was done in order to keep passengers in the dark are quite as silly as any of the rubbish printed in the press last week.
In all, I would say that it was a bad situation, handled well, and whilst it is easy to say that pilots (and cabin crew) are trained to deal with situations like that, it is quite another matter to have to deal with it for real. My thanks to all those concerned.
It is just a shame, having got back to ground and with the passengers feeling hugely grateful both to Monarch and the crew that we were all still in one piece, that everything went , as my daughter put it "to hell in a handbasket". Our treatment once back at the Airport was nothing short of shameful and may well be the reason why the majority of those passengers never travel with Monarch again. But that is another story. . .