Gulf Air cutbacks?
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well CaptA320.....why did it take so long for GF to see the light?...Surely there have been others as an example. Could it be the....my mind is made up, don't confuse us with facts...syndrome?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
411A I agree that a lot of what is being done now in GF could have taken place earlier, however the important thing is that something is being done and that's what counts. Bare in mind that we are still the only airline in the Middle East to start non-technical skills training and evaluation for our pilots and examiners.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I haven’t visited PPrune for a while. Frankly the site has become tedious. Childish and uniformed comment, although sometimes amusing, has proved to be boring and frustrating.
Racist comments and allegations of the same are often, in my experience, used by those incapable of making reasoned argument. The subject of lay off’s at GF is an important one. Naturally expats will be the first to go. This is reasonable. Who amongst us would argue otherwise? Imagine any national airline sacking nationals in favour of expats!!
So-called locals are undoubtedly talented and more than capable of manning and managing the airline. However problems do arise with depth of experience and cultural difficulties. This is sadly only too obvious with any cursory analysis of GF’s present condition. Our business is extremely competitive and relies on an ability to focus on problems in great detail. This is our greatest nemesis. The hard decisions are avoided accompanied by a mind-boggling lack of attention to detail. Laziness is endemic and nepotism rife. This corporate culture has only one outcome. Failure of the airline.
I am sure that the powers that be recognise this. As a result several management changes have been made and studies undertaken to improve the situation. However so far it has been half hearted. The PCE is still unable to get a grip of the underlying failures. I’m sure this is mostly attributable to political interference. Sadly the rot has not stopped. If the airline is to be saved then the PCE has to be a hard-nosed expat free off meddling sheiks/infighting and able to make sweeping changes. Jobs will have to go. Expat and local. If half the staff at HQ were sacked today would anyone notice their departure?
I wonder if this argument can be taken forward without the usual vitriolic rhetoric so prevalent in recent years?
As an aside I note with interest A320 Capt’s remarks on the high quality of GF’s CRM courses. Once again the nub of the matter is disregarded. The 072 crash was a direct result of the failings outlined above along with a number of others to obvious to mention. Yet this accident and others involving GF was not discussed in any way. Are we learning the lessons of other mistakes? No, better to sweep the subject under the carpet in the hope that it will go away!!
This has been a long post; I hope I haven’t bored the pants off you. As a parting shot consider the following;
Ramadan is upon us. Once again crews will be undertaking long haul flights whilst fasting. For those not familiar with such practises pilots refrain from food and drink of any sort during day light hours. Often 12 hours or more. Is this safe? Medical opinion would suggest otherwise. Ramadan Kareem.
Racist comments and allegations of the same are often, in my experience, used by those incapable of making reasoned argument. The subject of lay off’s at GF is an important one. Naturally expats will be the first to go. This is reasonable. Who amongst us would argue otherwise? Imagine any national airline sacking nationals in favour of expats!!
So-called locals are undoubtedly talented and more than capable of manning and managing the airline. However problems do arise with depth of experience and cultural difficulties. This is sadly only too obvious with any cursory analysis of GF’s present condition. Our business is extremely competitive and relies on an ability to focus on problems in great detail. This is our greatest nemesis. The hard decisions are avoided accompanied by a mind-boggling lack of attention to detail. Laziness is endemic and nepotism rife. This corporate culture has only one outcome. Failure of the airline.
I am sure that the powers that be recognise this. As a result several management changes have been made and studies undertaken to improve the situation. However so far it has been half hearted. The PCE is still unable to get a grip of the underlying failures. I’m sure this is mostly attributable to political interference. Sadly the rot has not stopped. If the airline is to be saved then the PCE has to be a hard-nosed expat free off meddling sheiks/infighting and able to make sweeping changes. Jobs will have to go. Expat and local. If half the staff at HQ were sacked today would anyone notice their departure?
I wonder if this argument can be taken forward without the usual vitriolic rhetoric so prevalent in recent years?
As an aside I note with interest A320 Capt’s remarks on the high quality of GF’s CRM courses. Once again the nub of the matter is disregarded. The 072 crash was a direct result of the failings outlined above along with a number of others to obvious to mention. Yet this accident and others involving GF was not discussed in any way. Are we learning the lessons of other mistakes? No, better to sweep the subject under the carpet in the hope that it will go away!!
This has been a long post; I hope I haven’t bored the pants off you. As a parting shot consider the following;
Ramadan is upon us. Once again crews will be undertaking long haul flights whilst fasting. For those not familiar with such practises pilots refrain from food and drink of any sort during day light hours. Often 12 hours or more. Is this safe? Medical opinion would suggest otherwise. Ramadan Kareem.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The following is meant to be both humorous and thought provoking in that it is essentially true.
Fatima is a clerk in Gulf Air HQ.
Here is a typical day in her life.
6:30 Wake up, housemaid has got the kids their breakfast and ready for school.
7:00 Put kids in car and head for work. I start at 7:00 am but we are allowed 14 minutes grace so I never have to be there until 7:14.
7:13 Arrive at work, drive in the main entrance and stop the car outside training school, keep engine running. Go into training school and swipe in. Back into car and leave by south gate. Take kids to school.
7:30 Meet a friend at school gates and go for a coffee with her so that I can get the latest gossip.
8:30 Arrive back at work. Check my desk and e-mail to make sure no one has put anything nasty on it, like work. Phone my friends to tell them the gossip I just heard.
10:00 Who does that bitch think she is! That British cow from the training school who shouted at me. She seems to think it’s my job to organize the settling in payments for a new batch of girls, OK it is my job, but I will get it done eventually. She just does not understand how busy I am. I will have to ask for an assistant.
10:15 I am so upset that I have to go for a coffee with my friend, we pop into Manama.
11:00 Very nice new clothes in the Seef Mall, I must come down tomorrow and try some on.
12:30 Back to work so that I can catch my boss and complain about the English girl. He agrees with me that I am overworked and has put in a request for an assistant for me.
1:00 All my friends are very happy that I am going to get an assistant, apparently I will have to have a promotion as well.
1:30 Pick up kids from school and take them home.
2:00 Back to work.
2:45 Time to go, off down to the swipe out and line up waiting for 3:00. Honestly I do not know why they have these swipe machines. They should just have them for the Expats as they are all lazy, but they do not need them for us Bahraini’s as we can be trusted to be at our work on time.
3:00 Home for afternoon nap. I work so hard!!!
Fatima is the rule rather than the exception.
[ 19 November 2001: Message edited by: sirwa69 ]
Fatima is a clerk in Gulf Air HQ.
Here is a typical day in her life.
6:30 Wake up, housemaid has got the kids their breakfast and ready for school.
7:00 Put kids in car and head for work. I start at 7:00 am but we are allowed 14 minutes grace so I never have to be there until 7:14.
7:13 Arrive at work, drive in the main entrance and stop the car outside training school, keep engine running. Go into training school and swipe in. Back into car and leave by south gate. Take kids to school.
7:30 Meet a friend at school gates and go for a coffee with her so that I can get the latest gossip.
8:30 Arrive back at work. Check my desk and e-mail to make sure no one has put anything nasty on it, like work. Phone my friends to tell them the gossip I just heard.
10:00 Who does that bitch think she is! That British cow from the training school who shouted at me. She seems to think it’s my job to organize the settling in payments for a new batch of girls, OK it is my job, but I will get it done eventually. She just does not understand how busy I am. I will have to ask for an assistant.
10:15 I am so upset that I have to go for a coffee with my friend, we pop into Manama.
11:00 Very nice new clothes in the Seef Mall, I must come down tomorrow and try some on.
12:30 Back to work so that I can catch my boss and complain about the English girl. He agrees with me that I am overworked and has put in a request for an assistant for me.
1:00 All my friends are very happy that I am going to get an assistant, apparently I will have to have a promotion as well.
1:30 Pick up kids from school and take them home.
2:00 Back to work.
2:45 Time to go, off down to the swipe out and line up waiting for 3:00. Honestly I do not know why they have these swipe machines. They should just have them for the Expats as they are all lazy, but they do not need them for us Bahraini’s as we can be trusted to be at our work on time.
3:00 Home for afternoon nap. I work so hard!!!
Fatima is the rule rather than the exception.
[ 19 November 2001: Message edited by: sirwa69 ]
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Intentionally Left Blank
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sirwa,
You also forgot to mention that Fatima isn't just a clerk. She is also a manager, senior manager, Head of Dept and VP; and that an awful lot of those who do not fall into the 'Fatima' category, simply come to work on time to stir up as much in-fighting as possible so that nothing gets done!
You also forgot to mention that Fatima isn't just a clerk. She is also a manager, senior manager, Head of Dept and VP; and that an awful lot of those who do not fall into the 'Fatima' category, simply come to work on time to stir up as much in-fighting as possible so that nothing gets done!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BahrainLad and Icarus.
I know these other Fatimas as well.
Made the mistake once of picking up my girlfriend from the pink palace at 3:00 pm.
I've still got the footmarks all over my body.
If it wasn't so serious it'd be bloody hillarious.
I know these other Fatimas as well.
Made the mistake once of picking up my girlfriend from the pink palace at 3:00 pm.
I've still got the footmarks all over my body.
If it wasn't so serious it'd be bloody hillarious.
your point is?
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread is obviously a load of old toot.
Here is the true story from today's GDN (so it must be true)
Hooray, Can I have my job back now? 
Here is the true story from today's GDN (so it must be true)
Airline flies high on new demand
By SOMAN BABY
GULF AIR is laying on dozens of extra flights to meet soaring regional demand, despite the global slump.
It is beefing up services to Jeddah and high-demand regional stations like Cairo and Beirut, it was revealed yesterday. Thirty extra flights between Jeddah and the airline's four Gulf stations are planned between tomorrow and December 31, for the Umra pilgrimage, commercial and customer services vice-president Adel Ali said.
"Besides increased capacity for Umra, we shall operate additional flights to regional markets like Beirut and Cairo for Eid, Christmas and New Year holidays," he told the GDN.
"The decision has been taken in view of the increased demand. There has been a shift in the tourist movement.
"People who used to go to Europe and the US for tourism purposes are now shifting their destinations to places of interest in our own region. Gulf Air is committed to catering to this new demand."
The global slump following the September 11 attacks in the US will continue during the first half of 2002, but the worst is over, said Mr Ali.
"We have already seen the worst, and it can now only go better. We are very optimistic that businesses will pick up and go back to the pre-crisis level during the second half of next year," he said.
Gulf Air's present fleet of 30 aircraft will drop to 26 by next year and the airline last month announced global plans to shed 400 to 450 jobs by the end of the year.
"The recent staff redundancy programme was an adjustment in the number of cabin crew required for revised business," said Mr Ali.
"This was also a reflection of the reduced frequency to certain stations, where there was an over-capacity.
"We shall continue to review all our routes. It may not be possible to sustain those routes with heavy losses."
Mr Ali said Gulf Air would continue to examine the cost reduction opportunities in all areas possible.
"More than 150 staff have already benefited from an early retirement programme which was implemented in co-ordination with the Labour and Social Affairs Ministry," he revealed.
"Our cost reduction exercise will not, however, be at the expense of safety and security.
"We will always look at what the customer needs and implement those projects which are commercially viable."
By SOMAN BABY
GULF AIR is laying on dozens of extra flights to meet soaring regional demand, despite the global slump.
It is beefing up services to Jeddah and high-demand regional stations like Cairo and Beirut, it was revealed yesterday. Thirty extra flights between Jeddah and the airline's four Gulf stations are planned between tomorrow and December 31, for the Umra pilgrimage, commercial and customer services vice-president Adel Ali said.
"Besides increased capacity for Umra, we shall operate additional flights to regional markets like Beirut and Cairo for Eid, Christmas and New Year holidays," he told the GDN.
"The decision has been taken in view of the increased demand. There has been a shift in the tourist movement.
"People who used to go to Europe and the US for tourism purposes are now shifting their destinations to places of interest in our own region. Gulf Air is committed to catering to this new demand."
The global slump following the September 11 attacks in the US will continue during the first half of 2002, but the worst is over, said Mr Ali.
"We have already seen the worst, and it can now only go better. We are very optimistic that businesses will pick up and go back to the pre-crisis level during the second half of next year," he said.
Gulf Air's present fleet of 30 aircraft will drop to 26 by next year and the airline last month announced global plans to shed 400 to 450 jobs by the end of the year.
"The recent staff redundancy programme was an adjustment in the number of cabin crew required for revised business," said Mr Ali.
"This was also a reflection of the reduced frequency to certain stations, where there was an over-capacity.
"We shall continue to review all our routes. It may not be possible to sustain those routes with heavy losses."
Mr Ali said Gulf Air would continue to examine the cost reduction opportunities in all areas possible.
"More than 150 staff have already benefited from an early retirement programme which was implemented in co-ordination with the Labour and Social Affairs Ministry," he revealed.
"Our cost reduction exercise will not, however, be at the expense of safety and security.
"We will always look at what the customer needs and implement those projects which are commercially viable."
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree GF's CRM Courses were a direct result of GF 072, as all of you would. But wonder of wonders, this ACCIDENT won't be touched on these courses. What a waste of a good(or bad?) example(or event) for CRM discussion.
I honestly believe this is the best event to discuss to have a good CRM. I disagree somewhat to the previous good comment on GF's CRM. IT IS BORING!!! VERY B-O-R-I-N-G!!!
3 days of boredom!(Though it depends on the CRM coordinator. He sets the mood of the participants.)
Had they included GF 072 in the topic, it would have kicked off a lively discussion & I wouldn't have minded a 5-day CRM.
What is ironic is this same accident is being used by other airlines in their CRM.
:o :o
I honestly believe this is the best event to discuss to have a good CRM. I disagree somewhat to the previous good comment on GF's CRM. IT IS BORING!!! VERY B-O-R-I-N-G!!!
3 days of boredom!(Though it depends on the CRM coordinator. He sets the mood of the participants.)
Had they included GF 072 in the topic, it would have kicked off a lively discussion & I wouldn't have minded a 5-day CRM.
What is ironic is this same accident is being used by other airlines in their CRM.
:o :o
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think a few of us have a tendancy to forget that we were hired on a three year contract. As someone previously put it, it's perfectly normal if the company no longer requires the services of so many pilots it would be the expatriate contracts which would not be renewed. I think every airline in the world would protect the interests of it's nationals above and beyond anyone else. This is not only understandable but also commendable.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
some of you who may have flown tristars maybe able to stay back,cause i heard thats what they getting from delta airlines,for peanuts!!!!
year 2002-announcement-due to the downturn,gf has decided to in vest into tristars-that'll freak emirates out alright,with their future vision,of 100 or so aircrafts,nothing older than 8 years,just like SIA???
year 2002-announcement-due to the downturn,gf has decided to in vest into tristars-that'll freak emirates out alright,with their future vision,of 100 or so aircrafts,nothing older than 8 years,just like SIA???
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: A sandy island
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The history of GF's 'CRM' is not great. Many will recall that we actually had a CRM program a few years ago (around '92-'95). It was very ably run by Ashok and Richard, who put all of their own time and a lot of their own funds into the program. They had to make a lot of their own visual aids, were given no help or support by the company, and were relegated to a dingy room at the old GF Club. But they did a good job.
Shortsightedly, management decided pilots did not need this course, as it meant that crew were not available for flying, so CRM was cancelled. And there we stayed for a couple of years.
Recent history not needing to be revisited, GF 072 and, more importantly, the JAA REQUIREMENT for a CRM program, are the only reasons why it has been reinstated. We were years ahead of any other carrier in this region, and are now 'somehow' lightyears behind "they whose name shall not be spoken in the Pink Palace". How did this come about? 'Proactive, planning, visionary, competent, honest, ethical, able' are all words whose meaning could have been put to good use over the last few years.
However, we have to live and work with what we now have. The only way forward is for every employee, from Al H down, to be working and flying for the survival of the company. Without that commitment, we will all be without a job in the relatively near future. Doubters, the future will tell.
Scotty and CaptA320, we actually only have a 3-month contract! You can sign anybody up for a 10-year contract, but if there is a 3-month notice period provided for either party at any time, it is in effect a 3-month contract. Scotty, you should be ok; I think the newer A320 crews are at this stage the most vulnerable. And of course those the company euphemistically term 'troublemakers'. It is a shame that this group normally includes everybody who actually tries to make a difference.
Of course a company will release its excess expat crew before retrenching its local crew. That is both obvious and fair. Witness the cabin crew debacle, though, there are better and worse ways of attempting such a sensitive restructuring. Depth of management, experience and compassion are put under the spotlight in these instances. My hope is that the recent announcement of increased flying might mean the planned reductions are less severe or, even better, cancelled.
Tristars? Now that's a thought! Might have a book on them somewhere!
Sorry for the long post, all! I am not as succint as I could be! Good luck to all, and may we go forward and prosper, all working in the same direction, with a common purpose. Are you listening, Ebrahim?
Shortsightedly, management decided pilots did not need this course, as it meant that crew were not available for flying, so CRM was cancelled. And there we stayed for a couple of years.
Recent history not needing to be revisited, GF 072 and, more importantly, the JAA REQUIREMENT for a CRM program, are the only reasons why it has been reinstated. We were years ahead of any other carrier in this region, and are now 'somehow' lightyears behind "they whose name shall not be spoken in the Pink Palace". How did this come about? 'Proactive, planning, visionary, competent, honest, ethical, able' are all words whose meaning could have been put to good use over the last few years.
However, we have to live and work with what we now have. The only way forward is for every employee, from Al H down, to be working and flying for the survival of the company. Without that commitment, we will all be without a job in the relatively near future. Doubters, the future will tell.
Scotty and CaptA320, we actually only have a 3-month contract! You can sign anybody up for a 10-year contract, but if there is a 3-month notice period provided for either party at any time, it is in effect a 3-month contract. Scotty, you should be ok; I think the newer A320 crews are at this stage the most vulnerable. And of course those the company euphemistically term 'troublemakers'. It is a shame that this group normally includes everybody who actually tries to make a difference.
Of course a company will release its excess expat crew before retrenching its local crew. That is both obvious and fair. Witness the cabin crew debacle, though, there are better and worse ways of attempting such a sensitive restructuring. Depth of management, experience and compassion are put under the spotlight in these instances. My hope is that the recent announcement of increased flying might mean the planned reductions are less severe or, even better, cancelled.
Tristars? Now that's a thought! Might have a book on them somewhere!
Sorry for the long post, all! I am not as succint as I could be! Good luck to all, and may we go forward and prosper, all working in the same direction, with a common purpose. Are you listening, Ebrahim?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scotty re-reading the previous posts I think I should have worded things better. I honestly hope you did not take my posts the wrong way, that was not my intention I assure you.
I share your concerns, but I do have faith that we will overcome our present difficulties. Some people may make fun of the "Fatimas" (which probably do exist) but the truth is that we also have a lot of good hardworking people in GF who genuinely want to see the airline succeed.
So chin up, wear your best smile and off we go for a night Bombay.
I share your concerns, but I do have faith that we will overcome our present difficulties. Some people may make fun of the "Fatimas" (which probably do exist) but the truth is that we also have a lot of good hardworking people in GF who genuinely want to see the airline succeed.
So chin up, wear your best smile and off we go for a night Bombay.