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Polish Government Tu154M crash

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Polish Government Tu154M crash

Old 23rd Apr 2010, 13:01
  #901 (permalink)  
BMP
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 10
Mike,


I am not sure that is the stator - the Polish jet photo looks like the nacelle popped off fully exposing the fan.

NASA - Making Future Commercial Aircraft Quieter

In any case, lets call it a widgit.

Now if this widgit was spinning at 30,000 RPM , would you expect the blades to be damaged/missing once the crash crushed the housing?

Regards,
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 13:55
  #902 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: latvia
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the person who took video of the plane crash, was found mudered. (today s news)
do you still think this is an accident and it has to be investigated as such?
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 13:59
  #903 (permalink)  
 
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Any link to the news?
Fact or rumour?
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 14:11
  #904 (permalink)  
 
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fact. its already in latvian media as well.
if u know russian language and want to google directly, use translit.ru , that will help u to get news directly.
i don 't think western world knows much about these accidents, political situation and all the aspects, that's why i never read western media sources, as they run on the google translated materials (in most of the cases) and they don 't know, where to look.
i'll get u links shortly. brb
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 14:16
  #905 (permalink)  
 
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Someone spread this rumour in comments on websites, and not it lives its own life...
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 14:22
  #906 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately the prolonged dribbling on publishing
the CVR tapes or transcripts is provoking such rumours...
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 14:26
  #907 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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i'll translate literally:
april 15 th nearby Kiev, was found murdered man, who april 10th tool a video (the same video we heard gun shots.( RED. i personally think, that wasn't gunshots at all, that was several explosions of amunition onboard. in video i heard men yelling "back! everybody step back!")) at the crash site of Polish government jet.
the reports about this are in polish and ukrainian internet forums ,also in kavkazcenter.com.
authot of this video was stabbed and people ,involved aren 't identified yet. the victim in critical condition was transfered to the hospital, but april 16 th he was attacked 2nd time by 2 men in masks. he was stabbed again, this time- lethally. the information (RED. video itself and the fact of the attack) nobody didn't deny by officials, but they didn't confirm it as well. although the crash scene, we can see in this video, is precise and match the photos, taken at the crash site. this video, was shown in Moscow TV channel, censored, though. shortly before that even appeared in youtube in full lenght.
i have attached youtube link as well. if u follow related links, u might find out more about this.
if u need my help with russian, give me a shout in mailbox.


pilna tā versija You Tube.

denied? today it had appeared (AGAIN) and already was denied? WOW! such a rush! as i said- the true story will not be disclosed. that's all.


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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 15:33
  #908 (permalink)  
 
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the person who took video of the plane crash, was found mudered

A story which was reported by several outlets, then found to be untrue and subsequently denied. But what's one more piece of unverified information...?
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 16:09
  #909 (permalink)  
 
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I dont know if the following has already been mentioned - but may be of interest, Some time after the discovery of the mass graves - In 1943 the head of the Polish Govt in exile in the UK - General Sikorsky- suffered a similar fate to the recent Polish aircrash when shortly after taking off from Gibralter in a British Liberator his a/c crashed into the Straights of Gibralter.

Rumours have abounded ever since that this was a deliberate assassination - with Russian and even British Government involved - On the basis that the General had become an embarrassment for the British at a time we were seeking to please Stalin.

It is understood that to this day the British Govt are unwilling to release
certain relative documents.
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 16:14
  #910 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Hi all.
Looks like Mike is right about that part being a stator not a fan.
Just looked at that foto again and those "blades" visible are not angled.
They are parallel to the flow of air .

Polish internet portal annouced that official time of the crash ( 8:56 ) was wrong.

Onet.pl Wiadomo?ci
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 17:31
  #911 (permalink)  
 
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Russia saw that video titled "3 FSB men shooting down survivors of the crash in the smoking debris" :o))))))))))))))))))))))

Sorry, I know that laughing is un-appropriate in this case, but it seems to me, really, how to say, maniacy approach.
I looked all my eyes out trying to see any thing in that film and hear, as was urged to (it stops every 5 sec and says "we repeat again - watch! listen!" someone said a word - this is the name of the pistol that KGB used in 1937 - we recognise the word!) but honestly, apart from "Damn, xxxx!" (in Russian) haven't "seen" or "heard" any thing.
I think someone saw the crash site.

There are dozens of links to journalists video-s from the crash site, done immediately after, in youtube. The crash site was invaded by journalists from all sides. It always ends up by quarrel with some big Russian guy, in ab. 2-3 minutes of shooting the scene, some shaking of camera :o), beginning to show sky and ground, and you hear in Russian get out and stop this and how you dare - and swearing a lot.
Apparently at this point the camera is being grabatised from the journalist.

Note, though, that the Poles visiting Smolesnk forum have all noted, that if their Polish security took the camera-s - the journalists would never get their film back, to put into youtube.
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 17:33
  #912 (permalink)  
 
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Foxie, there are other sites on the net for this nonsense, give us a break.
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 17:53
  #913 (permalink)  
 
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pasir, Sikorsky is national Polish Hero, buried in Wawel cathedral, where all the kings are. Archives on him in the UK classified, yes. For 50 yrs longer, still. Famous mystery crash and Russians we always interested, because could be us :o), could be not at all.
For Stalin, though, Sikorsky was useful, as he declared war to the USSR, on behalf of Polish government in exile. And thus un-tied Stalin's hands in terms of thinking what to do with captured Polish officers. Sikorsky was a live proof USSR and Poland are officially in the state of war.
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 19:05
  #914 (permalink)  
 
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There has been one press appearance of MAK.

"MAK Investigation committee, based on black boxes data, inform that TAWS was on during the President Kachinsky flight and was not switched off."
("Poland and Russia agreed to jointly address the producer for further clarifications.")
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 19:43
  #915 (permalink)  
 
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And yesterday news: "MAK informs that info from the recorder of the parameters and the speech recorder has been synchronised, incl. the in-put of data from control point (aerodrome) recorder and the results received from desiphering of the plane exploitation registering devices on-board".
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 21:43
  #916 (permalink)  
 
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And there is no such a simple thing as the *whole* descent profile data, not just the last mile or so? Also, couldn't have been that the a/c lost power (someone posted a photo of the turbine, which seemed to suggest that possibility) and that would explain the sudden altitude loss?
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 21:45
  #917 (permalink)  
 
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Some calculations fr Smolensk forum.
Standard Russian glissade - 2.66 (2 degrees 40 minutes). And theoretically, the TU in Nortern should have followed this route:
Far Beacon distance 6,100m, height 300m.
Near Beacon 1,100m, height 70m.

Let's count:
tan(2.66/180*pi)*6100 = 283.4008 (edge of the runway, height 17m)
tan(2.66/180*pi)*(6100-1100) = 232.2957 (when above Near Beacon, height 68-70m.)


(Checked by Windowds in-built computation ? device
2.66 tg * 6100= 283,40076306540161906494420247723 m)

Now, an Aml idea. "What if the navigator, instead of Russian 2.66 took IKAO recommended 3 degree glissade? Then, to the edge of the glissade the plane arrive at -20m; nearly 40 m difference to what it should have been. While they were going over the ravine all was compensated more or less. But then there started the climb up of the terrain and I think at approx. 1,200m from the edge of the runway the systems warned them of the dangeous nearing the surface. At 1,200m away from the runway, lowering at 3 degrees, they'd have height 46m from runway level - at the planned height of 72m.
On finding this, the crew changed regimes for take-off at which point the aircraft sank even lower. An idea to think over."
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Old 23rd Apr 2010, 22:59
  #918 (permalink)  
 
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Hi
As I've mentioned before , it was confirmed in Poland that plane crashed earlier than official version stated.
In polish article they stated that the original time was the time when siren in the airport went off .
So it's almost 15 minutes after , as we knew before .
Now , the famous video from youtube . The title sais "first minutes after..." , but thats when the siren starts , so it look's like it's 15 minutes after . No sign of fire or firefighters . They didn't know that plane crashed couple hundred meters from the airport ?
From what I understand video was made from the spot where engine and tail of the plane was left .
Actual haul was about 100 meters away ? Not really visible from the camera.
That's when all analysys of that clip with "people" shown becomes stupid.
Why would you climb on the engine and jump of it . And that is the "first" survivor (pilot ) found in this video .
The audio from this clip is a different story. I mean the background ( from 100 meters away , where the haul is ? ) It is bad , but you can hear shouting in russian and it sounds like someone is trying to scare bypassers off . who ? It's military airport ,so I'm assuming that it was either army or some sort of securty , maybe ? and gunshots ? It sounds like gunshots , and before anyone start laughing at me , I was in the army , and I realy know how the gunshots sound like. I was listening to the audio from that clip after I've done some work with editing it with cool edit ( proffesional software ).
This is not a theory or idea.
Only my though's and doubt's
please comment or share your's
but without conspiracy theories
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Old 24th Apr 2010, 13:57
  #919 (permalink)  
 
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These "gunshots" are just the wind hitting the camcorder mike. If you ever held a camcorder you'll know it.

Mods, can someone clean up these conspiracy theorists please?
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Old 24th Apr 2010, 15:01
  #920 (permalink)  
 
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Mods...

I dont know which one of you took care of last night's interruptions by S of D, but thank you so so much. I was hoping I would wake up this morning to find it all was a bad dream. Perhaps it was!

grizz
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