Virgin restarts recruitment

[Bluebaron]

Well news hot off the press is that Virgin will restart cabin-crew recruitment in June. Two courses a week.

Also rumours that the 747-200 fleet will be around longer than previously planned. Apparently Richard is keen to re-launch the Toronto service for summer.

This sounds promising for all those looking for work? Could BA follow???

bb <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[wallywombat]

What a pathetic way to run an airline! So, all the 162 Classic pilots that were to be or have been laid off thanks to the Knee-jerk reaction by Virgin management may be taken on again only months later!According to a friend of mine, Virgin are paying big bucks to get their Classic Captains to work on days off, even though many of them are holding redundancy notices in one hand and the phone in the other with Crewing begging them to work in the other. I appreciate that no-one could have anticipated the speedy recovery after the events of Sept. 11th, but many of those pilots have had a lousy Christmas thanks to the inept VS management.And as always, who gets sc@wed? The pilots and their families, thats who!!!

[FL310]

Wambat, ok, let's face it. This is not alone on the pilots, it is on all employes in this business. Understand that you cannot run the show alone.

What we see here is the logical result which appears now slightly earlier as most of us hoped for. Once the balance sheets for last year are finalised and the plans for 2002 are ready to be published, all management will find out that a workforce is required to do the job. For my part, I told and keep on telling everyone that March is the month. But it is still a very long way to go...

[Noddy Staltern]

Guys, a few facts here are a bit wide of the mark (although the inept management remarks seem pretty accurate)! Of the 140-odd pilots to be made redundant only 14 were from the classic fleet. All are F/Os (although some elderly captains on short-term contracts were 'retired'). The vast majority of guys 'below the cut' were on the 340 or 400 fleets and have not yet left the company. Some captains (approx 90) are deing demoted but none are being made redundant. That said, the whole process is a complete fiasco which was poorly thought-out, badly executed and totally mis-managed.

[wallywombat]

Noddy, that's exactly what I was trying to point out!The reason that not many pilots from the Classic fleet have left yet is that it is operated by relatively senior crews, and Virgin are using the "last in-first out" process to reduce their numbers, so most of the pilots leaving will be from the -400/A340 fleets, thus entailing a huge expense to retrain their pilots. That said, my main point was that no matter the sclae of the management stuff-up, it is always the pilots that come out of it worse off, never the mananegment who make the mistakes in the first place.

[Denzil]

"It is always the pilots that come out of it worse off" try explaining that to the undermanned and overworked engineers <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[schit.furbraen]

well said denzil
last xmas and new year I worked all night, 14hrs,
2nd of jan finished a 36 hour engine cx in the open freezing conditions, never complained or went on strike. This year been out of work since oct. xmas/newyear was still s*** as I couldn't afford any thing.
They are lucky to have a job and income.

[ 03 January 2002: Message edited by: schit.furbraen ]</p>

[iwish]

WHAT A WOMBAT! Pilots had it hard? 100% of Virgins flight engineers were made redundant. The ground crew are undermanned and working all hours in awfull weather and due to a shortage of crews the pilots worked a few days extra over xmas, for which they were well payed. Many of us had a xmas at home but would rather have been away and at least had a job! <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[ 03 January 2002: Message edited by: iwish ]</p>

[Denzil]

My comments are not to start a pi$$ing competition but more to remind you that other people are affected by the current situation <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[wallywombat]

Yes, Denzil, in order to smooth a few ruffled feathers, I should have pointed out that all ground and flight crews are affected by poor management decisions and planning, not just pilots. I am well aware that the Flight Engineers ahve been made redundant, one of my best mates is holding such a letter now. Hopefully traffic is picking up so quickly now and the Classics won't be retired, but that won't help the many already laid off due to the rush by management to ease the balance sheet without a thought of the consequences. My sources tell me that the feeling is so high in VS about the way the management have treated flight and Cabin crew, that VS will find it very hard replacing vrews that will never work for them again when things finally improve.

[tired]

wally, your source, like you, appears to be full of hot air.

Good name you chose there, mate - the first part of it, anyway.

[wallywombat]

Actually, tired, my source is a very good one within training and management. On what do you base yours on?

[xsimba]

Tired, you seem to be attacking wombat for stating the truth. His comments were directed at pilots but did not imply any disrespect to Flight Engineers or indeed Ground Engineers. He is merely pointing out the ineptitude of Virgin management - something we all know to be right at the heart of current problems.

His comments about future recruitment problems are also spot on. I will shortly be leaving and I doubt anything but a wholesale change in the management of VS and a substantial increase in salary could persuade me to come back. Let's face it the only reason many of us stayed after the last pay round was because of the expected short time to command which has now vanished into thin air.

VS management is storing up a great deal of resentment among its workforce and when the good times return people will vote with their feet.

[wallywombat]

Thanks, Xsimba! I base my opinions on the fact that no less than two of my immediate friends are joining easyJet, although they themselves were not issued with redundancy notices, but the time to command for senior F/O's is now so long as to be prohibitive. easyJet is also mopping up several senior Captains from the Classic fleet, again whose jobs were not threatened but they wanted out like so many others and eJ were pleased to get them.
tired, before you attack me or my sources, I suggest you get some of your own!

[Dan Winterland]

Xsimba and wally, your comments are spot on.

[Denzil]

My point was that airlines consist of more than just the "poor" pilots and it was (initially) written as though they are the only people to suffer <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

I must agree with xsimba that recruitment in the future might not be so easy, a lot of people not made redundant are looking to move on when the industry picks up (hope it's soon <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> )

Interesting that we have saved so much money and turned the airline around in such a dramatic way since the tragic events of 11/9, why if the guys at the top are so good was this not being addressed already <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

BTW through lack of support for us (VERY) poor engineers the first rounds on you next friday Dan <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[tired]

Wally, unlike you I actually work for the company..... Management is most certainly inept, but those of my colleagues who think that management at other companies are any less inept are, I'm afraid, in for a severe disappointment. Call me cynical, but after 20 years in this business I've found competent managers to be in extremely short supply.

Did VS lay off too many people at the outset? Well, maybe they did, but it's far too early to tell yet. Our loads over the last few weeks have been excellent, to be sure, but at what price to our yields? I have no idea what our yield is at the moment, but I do know that we've been discounting heavily to get bums on seats, as has everyone else I'm sure. Whether those yields are high enough to sustain the company at it's present size is still very much an open question. MY sources tell me that there are still a couple of routes on the endangered list - a review will be carried out in a week or 2, after which we may well lose another route, rather than gain one. I hope like hell we don't, because that will put my job at risk, but that's the way it goes....

There are certainly those of my colleagues who claim they will never work for VS again etc etc - I've just spent 4 days downroute with one of them. There are just as many who feel as I do - better the devil you know. See my remarks above about the depth of quality management in aviation. In any case, how exactly do you downsize a company by 20% without antagonising a lot of people, no matter how good a manager you are?

Xsimba - I'm sorry to hear you're leaving mate, and I wish you all the best. (Are you below the line or going of your own accord?)Let's hope this recovery does turn out to be as strong wally seems to think it is and that the managers at your new company turn out to be excellent.

[Loc-out]

What start date for pilots at VS is the "line"?

[BUMPFF]

Schit.furbraen, what sort of engine took 36 hours to change? Was it a Merlin? In 1976 a military VC-10 on Royal duty coughed and an inboard Spey was changed in 6 hours 50 minutes by two resident ground engineers. In cold wintry conditions.

[tired]

Loc-out - not sure exactly, but I think somewhere in the early part of 1999. I don't have a list of start dates to tie up with the seniority list, so can't be more helpful.