First Officer flies 13 years without license
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Fate being the hunter
As two previous posters have noted, this has been going on for decades- 'Dudley' 'Scar on cheek'.
Fate is the Hunter. Ernest Gann.
Nothing is new under the sun....
Fate is the Hunter. Ernest Gann.
Nothing is new under the sun....
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I suspect that we may find that he only had one fake (forged) licence in fact, and that the others were real.
In the days when a national licence was a requirement these were often issued quite readily on production of another "acceptable" licence. Thus if he forged his Swedish licence he mightn well have been spotted by return paperwork from his Sim rides because he had no CAA records in Sweden, but once the Belgians or Italians or whoever had issued their licence or validation on the basis of that then he was pretty much in the clear as those licences were perfectly genuine. He only had to rely on the issuing state not checking with the original CAA - and I bet no one does that.
Just a theorey that might explain things.
Still should be strung up by the balls though. Imagine th stink when a doctor does this? Do the medical profession aplaud him as a "Ned Kelly" (SHAME!)
I find it hard to believe that so many people here are willing to applaud this fraudster who is no more than an unqualified job-thief when they have sweated blood and £000s to achieve a licence, and this prick has cheated, stolen work and endangered tens of thousands of lives.(because he wasn't always as good an operator as he is now)
Doesn't say much for our self-esteem, and quite a lot of other things too, does it?
In the days when a national licence was a requirement these were often issued quite readily on production of another "acceptable" licence. Thus if he forged his Swedish licence he mightn well have been spotted by return paperwork from his Sim rides because he had no CAA records in Sweden, but once the Belgians or Italians or whoever had issued their licence or validation on the basis of that then he was pretty much in the clear as those licences were perfectly genuine. He only had to rely on the issuing state not checking with the original CAA - and I bet no one does that.
Just a theorey that might explain things.
Still should be strung up by the balls though. Imagine th stink when a doctor does this? Do the medical profession aplaud him as a "Ned Kelly" (SHAME!)
I find it hard to believe that so many people here are willing to applaud this fraudster who is no more than an unqualified job-thief when they have sweated blood and £000s to achieve a licence, and this prick has cheated, stolen work and endangered tens of thousands of lives.(because he wasn't always as good an operator as he is now)
Doesn't say much for our self-esteem, and quite a lot of other things too, does it?
Well, IMHO, regardless of how competent, good etc.,etc. you may or may not have been over a number of months/years/decades, without the correct licence and validations, exams etc. i feel that you shouldn't be out there doing the job.
Of course, some will disagree - personally i think i would make a great gynaecologist having spent the last 24 years.....actually, i'll stop right there as i don't have the relevant paperwork.......you could argue i have the experience though.......heheh
F/O
Of course, some will disagree - personally i think i would make a great gynaecologist having spent the last 24 years.....actually, i'll stop right there as i don't have the relevant paperwork.......you could argue i have the experience though.......heheh
F/O
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The Fraudster was Blacklisted by Agency's and being "wanted" by the Swedisch CAA for 7... yes SEVEN years allready, and guys like Greenfield keep on defending this dangerous fool (that he was) and protecting him, He should be nailed to the wall for all to see.
.. so there, don't beleive a minute that T.S. was safe... at all!!!!!!
.. so there, don't beleive a minute that T.S. was safe... at all!!!!!!
Last edited by Pointer; 6th Mar 2010 at 09:56.
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The captain with no licence? I'll tell you something equally frightening. Earlier this year we were shocked by the news of three false doctors acting here in Finland as GP's. Two of them were medical students halfway through the studies, but the third was a totally lay person, with no medical education at all. Would you believe it? Well, they did suspect something, but the third mentioned managed to work several months before it came out. Generally you believe your doctor, don't you?
Asked "why did you do it" the man said: "Doctors' earnings are good enough"
Asked "why did you do it" the man said: "Doctors' earnings are good enough"
Not all that uncommon. Anyone remember the Australian who went on to fly with a major airline on the sub continent with forged licences and log book entries? Caught out by a good bit of detective work and duly prosecuted as I recall.
And I know of at least one ---- who got a post 1989 job in Au., and continued to retirement. Plus two "SIM Captains" (different airlines) who bluffed their way into real flying jobs around the Indian Ocean.
There are still at least two African countries where you can get a license by mail, for US$$$$$ --- and despite the fact the countries are not Level 1 countries, quite a number of kosher countries still accept the license to issue a local validation ---- having verified with the "national authority" in said African country that the license was "valid".
Don't you just love "process'.
Tootle pip!!
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I remember when on Airtours, a first officer was being investigated for an over-imaginative logbook.
There were a number of characters whose ring pieces were going sixpence - dinner plate. Some of them were exactly the type of characters you'd expect, some weren't.
Personally, I think there is a lot more going round than people realise - tip of the iceberg.
It will continue until 'we' decide to use the laws that are already in place. A dose of the 'Voltaire' treatment would be good.
There were a number of characters whose ring pieces were going sixpence - dinner plate. Some of them were exactly the type of characters you'd expect, some weren't.
Personally, I think there is a lot more going round than people realise - tip of the iceberg.
It will continue until 'we' decide to use the laws that are already in place. A dose of the 'Voltaire' treatment would be good.
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There is still hope!
At last, some positive news about the Dutch in aviation!
After being bashed on this forum over the fact they had a "underwear bomber" slipping through and certain airlines taking off from taxiways at SPL my fellow countrymen make me proud
After being bashed on this forum over the fact they had a "underwear bomber" slipping through and certain airlines taking off from taxiways at SPL my fellow countrymen make me proud
Well, IMHO, regardless of how competent, good etc.,etc. you may or may not have been over a number of months/years/decades, without the correct licence and validations, exams etc. i feel that you shouldn't be out there doing the job.
Of course, some will disagree - personally i think i would make a great gynaecologist having spent the last 24 years.....actually, i'll stop right there as i don't have the relevant paperwork.......you could argue i have the experience though.......heheh
F/O
Of course, some will disagree - personally i think i would make a great gynaecologist having spent the last 24 years.....actually, i'll stop right there as i don't have the relevant paperwork.......you could argue i have the experience though.......heheh
F/O
Leave the romantic idealism to Ernest K Gann's characters.
Dengue - does the Voltaire treatment involve syphilis, rampant in 'Candide'?
Last edited by Fantome; 5th Mar 2010 at 16:10.
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And are you advancing it with yours ? 
As they say, we spend 9mths trying to get outa there, and the rest of our life trying to get back in 
As regards the thread subject, I think too a certain wry sense of humour is called for here.
All the self-important "regulators" Ha with their recognitions/validations /own little hierarchy . . . and this guy rides roughshod like a bull in a china shop over the whole lot & does his own thing undetected for 13 years 
As well as the deadly serious side vis a vis insurance cover if there had been an accident, and his "official" never mind practical abilities, I can't also help smiling a little here.
If the story about him being known about for 7yrs is true, then some heads should roll even further than his IMHO.
As they say, we spend 9mths trying to get outa there, and the rest of our life trying to get back in As regards the thread subject, I think too a certain wry sense of humour is called for here.
All the self-important "regulators" Ha
with their recognitions/validations /own little hierarchy . . . and this guy rides roughshod like a bull in a china shop over the whole lot & does his own thing undetected for 13 years As well as the deadly serious side vis a vis insurance cover if there had been an accident, and his "official" never mind practical abilities, I can't also help smiling a little here.
If the story about him being known about for 7yrs is true, then some heads should roll even further than his IMHO.
I do apologise Fantome - just stating my opinion - didn't mean to be "fatuous" (i had to go look that one up on Google, didn't want to just assume you were putting me down ! hehe)
I guess what i was trying to do, albeit in a slightly unorthodox fashion (and as it turns out, totally un-funny way
) was to say that just because we do something for a number of months/years/decades, means absolutely nothing if the legal requirements are not satisfied for the relevant authorities - just an opinion i'm voicing, feel free to disagree at will - and i believed it relevant to the thread topic Fantome ?
And i know for sure i wouldn't be a good gyno., regardless of paperwork i still desperately need some good quality hours in the saddle - oh, how i love gaining the experience
F/O
I guess what i was trying to do, albeit in a slightly unorthodox fashion (and as it turns out, totally un-funny way
) was to say that just because we do something for a number of months/years/decades, means absolutely nothing if the legal requirements are not satisfied for the relevant authorities - just an opinion i'm voicing, feel free to disagree at will - and i believed it relevant to the thread topic Fantome ?And i know for sure i wouldn't be a good gyno., regardless of paperwork i still desperately need some good quality hours in the saddle - oh, how i love gaining the experience
F/O
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captplaystation, a little correction; he did not do his work for 13 years undetected, he fled from several jobs, only to use his cunning deceit in an other country, he was on the wanted list with the Swedes, for 7 years, he has been tossed by more airlines, he fled from some..
Some people keep this Robin-hood image alive, like no one noticed..? every time someone did notice!, and then he fled.. until he ran in to this DFO, who did not look further than his nose is long, only to cheat other pilots in the business. So T.S. was being happy because he found his counterpart, somewhere he could hide, play the boss, so the Farce could stay alive. i hope the Truly Honest and fine gentleman who runs Corendon Vliegvakanties will read this because its a shame that his company gets damaged by such idiots!!
Many excellent people work at Corendon Vliegvakanties and Corendon Airlines..
Some people keep this Robin-hood image alive, like no one noticed..? every time someone did notice!, and then he fled.. until he ran in to this DFO, who did not look further than his nose is long, only to cheat other pilots in the business. So T.S. was being happy because he found his counterpart, somewhere he could hide, play the boss, so the Farce could stay alive. i hope the Truly Honest and fine gentleman who runs Corendon Vliegvakanties will read this because its a shame that his company gets damaged by such idiots!!
Many excellent people work at Corendon Vliegvakanties and Corendon Airlines..
Last edited by Pointer; 6th Mar 2010 at 09:57.
Thanks f.o, silly to get side tracked, bogged down in semantics, especially when the crux of this affair is so ably revealed by those who have first hand knowledge of the scoundrel. So here we are just being picky, as no doubt I am maintaining that what you have said in effect and repeated is simply the obvious, that whatever our experience, we must have earned the right to hold our qualifications if we wish to qualify, in our own eyes, in the eyes of the world and, of course, the eyes of the law. Can we just call that 'a given', please?
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Dengue, was the Airtours miscreant a particularly unpleasant female by any chance - and tried to sue them for sexual discrimination too?
Fantome, the Voltaire reference is undoubtably "...por encourager les autres."
Fantome, the Voltaire reference is undoubtably "...por encourager les autres."
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It was a man . . . and since I have no proof either way, I'll comment no further.
Mais oui, c'est ca
Fantome, the Voltaire reference is undoubtably "...por encourager les autres."
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Ab
was the Airtours miscreant a particularly unpleasant female by any chance - and tried to sue them for sexual discrimination too?
The ex RAF chap refered to is a rather more interesting case.
Rgds
The Moss
From the British Guardian newspaper, Wednesday 28 March 2001.
A British airline pilot has been suspended amid claims that some of his qualifications may have been faked, it emerged yesterday.
Irregularities were allegedly found in the logbook of Airtours first officer Sxxxxx Gxxxxxx, 30, when he applied for a promotion.
The civil aviation authority (CAA) has launched an investigation which will look back over the career of Mr Gxxxxxx, who is believed to have served in the RAF before joining Airtours.
If the allegations are proved Mr Gxxxxxx, who flew mainly Airbus 320s, could be charged under article 83 of the air navigation order. If guilty he could receive a two-year jail term and/or an unlimited fine.
Mr Gxxxxx began working for Airtours in 1999. His logbook, a record of his whole career, seemed to indicate that he had appropriate qualifications and experience.
The irregularities were discovered only when the airline invited its more junior pilots to apply for command posts. After Mr Gxxxxx applied for promotion, a routine check of his logbook was made and concern raised over the accuracy of some entries. It is believed the investigation will look at the number of hours Mr Gxxxxx claimed to have flown before joining Airtours.
The CAA's safety regulation group is responsible for setting commercial aviation standards in Britain. This role includes ensuring that pilots are adequately trained and that their flying hours are regulated. Maintaining a logbook is the responsibility of a pilot but is subject to spot checks by the CAA.
A spokesman said: "The CAA is investigating a pilot for a British airline in connection with alleged irregularities relating to a pilot licence application."
Mr Gxxxxxx was not available for comment.
He had been in the RAF and had an RAF logbook with enough hours to get a license. Except that he hadn't been an pilot in the RAF, he had fabricated the whole logbook. He was found out when someone who was actually on one of the Squadrons his logbook claimed he was on couldn't remeber him.
To falsify an RAF logbook is very adventurous. Each months' entries have to be countersigned by at least one, but usually two executives on the unit and each end of year there is a countersigned summary which matched the official RAF records. It's fraud on a grand scale.
Name obscured by me, because incredibly - he's now got his licences back and is flying again!
A British airline pilot has been suspended amid claims that some of his qualifications may have been faked, it emerged yesterday.
Irregularities were allegedly found in the logbook of Airtours first officer Sxxxxx Gxxxxxx, 30, when he applied for a promotion.
The civil aviation authority (CAA) has launched an investigation which will look back over the career of Mr Gxxxxxx, who is believed to have served in the RAF before joining Airtours.
If the allegations are proved Mr Gxxxxxx, who flew mainly Airbus 320s, could be charged under article 83 of the air navigation order. If guilty he could receive a two-year jail term and/or an unlimited fine.
Mr Gxxxxx began working for Airtours in 1999. His logbook, a record of his whole career, seemed to indicate that he had appropriate qualifications and experience.
The irregularities were discovered only when the airline invited its more junior pilots to apply for command posts. After Mr Gxxxxx applied for promotion, a routine check of his logbook was made and concern raised over the accuracy of some entries. It is believed the investigation will look at the number of hours Mr Gxxxxx claimed to have flown before joining Airtours.
The CAA's safety regulation group is responsible for setting commercial aviation standards in Britain. This role includes ensuring that pilots are adequately trained and that their flying hours are regulated. Maintaining a logbook is the responsibility of a pilot but is subject to spot checks by the CAA.
A spokesman said: "The CAA is investigating a pilot for a British airline in connection with alleged irregularities relating to a pilot licence application."
Mr Gxxxxxx was not available for comment.
He had been in the RAF and had an RAF logbook with enough hours to get a license. Except that he hadn't been an pilot in the RAF, he had fabricated the whole logbook. He was found out when someone who was actually on one of the Squadrons his logbook claimed he was on couldn't remeber him.
To falsify an RAF logbook is very adventurous. Each months' entries have to be countersigned by at least one, but usually two executives on the unit and each end of year there is a countersigned summary which matched the official RAF records. It's fraud on a grand scale.
Name obscured by me, because incredibly - he's now got his licences back and is flying again!
Last edited by Dan Winterland; 5th Mar 2010 at 23:59.
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A number of interesting points have come out of this and similar incidents - a number of which have already been referred to. It is worth noting that deliberate falsification on qualifications is by no means exclusive to the aviation industry. There have been many well documented cases of dentists and doctors performing complex surgical procedures on patients without any formal qualifications in their field. It is actually reasonably straight forward to acquire the basic skills required to pretend to be someone you are not if you work in the right sphere. For example, if you are an experienced theatre technician, you can pick up masses of practical tips and then take a chance on getting the experience you need once you have your surgeon's job. Similarly, if you are good as a pilot and a bit of a chancer you can talk your way into anything. In both cases, there has been a generally-accepted belief that you only turn up to an interview with the necessary qualifications.
There are a number of issues here. First of all, to knowingly defraud your airline and your passengers in this way is outrageous. It must be severely punished in order for passengers to retain confidence in the system which governs pilot qualification and recruitment. Without that there is no airline industry. The second issue is that this individual is robbing every professional pilot who has chosen to do it right. They have done the work, proven themselves at every stage of training and been found worthy to have that coveted airline job. I have zero sympathy for this guy, as he is a thief who has robbed every concientious young pilot aspiring to this job. It is my belief that jail is the only appropriate disposal of the case as a warning to others. This is simply intolerable and any loophole in the licensing sytem that permits this must be tidied-up pronto.
There are a number of issues here. First of all, to knowingly defraud your airline and your passengers in this way is outrageous. It must be severely punished in order for passengers to retain confidence in the system which governs pilot qualification and recruitment. Without that there is no airline industry. The second issue is that this individual is robbing every professional pilot who has chosen to do it right. They have done the work, proven themselves at every stage of training and been found worthy to have that coveted airline job. I have zero sympathy for this guy, as he is a thief who has robbed every concientious young pilot aspiring to this job. It is my belief that jail is the only appropriate disposal of the case as a warning to others. This is simply intolerable and any loophole in the licensing sytem that permits this must be tidied-up pronto.
