NTSB Recommends Airlines Routinely Monitor CVR's
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I am currently working for a company that does this and it has been mandated by local CAA (India). Additionally, the "erase" buttons are placarded INOP. I'm not a particular fan of that, but to answer some posts above:
- it is technically possible (though only a fraction of the CVR's is listened to)
- one can get used to that. It does prevent people from talking below 10000ft and bitchin' on the managers too much
- it is technically possible (though only a fraction of the CVR's is listened to)
- one can get used to that. It does prevent people from talking below 10000ft and bitchin' on the managers too much
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The sad truth is that this BS will actually decrease safety. Because it won't be long before crews get into the habit of doing something to circumvent this invasion of privacy (pull CBs, cover cockpit mics / interphone off, etc.) and it won't be long before an aircraft accident in which CVR data will be corrupt or non-existent.
I really wish we would go back to the days of common sense.
I really wish we would go back to the days of common sense.
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I really wish we would go back to the days of common sense.
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They should get on with real safety stuff, like insisting operators pay enough so their employees don't have to moonlight or deadhead across a continent to go to work. They should have a proper understanding of how those in the lowest rungs of aviation live so Colgan 3407 doesn't happen again. Debbie Hersman should get her fingers out of her RRR's and do some work. Piddling about with CVR's will not fix the REAL problem.
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Audio transcription will become a paid service, a cheap one: upload your audio, download transcripts, pay a small bill at the end of the month. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to pick out most of the words.
Then fishing expeditions on CVR contents become a computer search problem, and the fishermen will just get whatever CVR recordings have interesting words in them to listen more carefully.
You won't be an invisible needle in a haystack, you'll be a needle in a haystack where someone has a very large magnet to find you.
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nicolai writes:
You won't be an invisible needle in a haystack, you'll be a needle in a haystack where someone has a very large magnet to find you.
You won't be an invisible needle in a haystack, you'll be a needle in a haystack where someone has a very large magnet to find you.
But -
If we're going to hold FD crew to perfect standards, we need to go back to the concept of paying them well and hiring the best of the best.
nicolai;
And you will get exactly what you pay for: Junk, not worth the paper it's printed on.
The airline industry has made parsimony a science, and a religion.
An industry that will not pay properly for flight crews is certainly not going to pay for programs like this, not because it's good bang for buck but because nobody who knows anything about flight data including CVRs would take it seriously or use the information for anything important.
If Congress is successful with this kind of nonsense, such a program would become nothing more than an administrivial box-tick (just like a lot of SMS work), and fall into disuse.
As usual, the focus is on getting rid of symptoms of problems and not coming to terms with the problems themselves.
Automation will soon make this easy. Google is offering audio transcription on YouTube videos now, and any number of companies sell systems that work on natural speech - ever called a service line that asks you to state your problem, product, location, etc, and automatically works from there? They will only get better at this.
Audio transcription will become a paid service, a cheap one: upload your audio, download transcripts, pay a small bill at the end of the month. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to pick out most of the words.
Then fishing expeditions on CVR contents become a computer search problem, and the fishermen will just get whatever CVR recordings have interesting words in them to listen more carefully.
You won't be an invisible needle in a haystack, you'll be a needle in a haystack where someone has a very large magnet to find you.
Audio transcription will become a paid service, a cheap one: upload your audio, download transcripts, pay a small bill at the end of the month. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to pick out most of the words.
Then fishing expeditions on CVR contents become a computer search problem, and the fishermen will just get whatever CVR recordings have interesting words in them to listen more carefully.
You won't be an invisible needle in a haystack, you'll be a needle in a haystack where someone has a very large magnet to find you.
The airline industry has made parsimony a science, and a religion.
An industry that will not pay properly for flight crews is certainly not going to pay for programs like this, not because it's good bang for buck but because nobody who knows anything about flight data including CVRs would take it seriously or use the information for anything important.
If Congress is successful with this kind of nonsense, such a program would become nothing more than an administrivial box-tick (just like a lot of SMS work), and fall into disuse.
As usual, the focus is on getting rid of symptoms of problems and not coming to terms with the problems themselves.
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This situation sort of reminds me of the ban on using the mobile while driving in this country: There were a few accidents because people were holding their mobile instead of the steering wheel so they banned it.
Then there were a few accidents where people were using the speaker of the mobile and were distracted from driving so it was suggested that talking on the mobile using the speaker phone should also be banned.
But then someone said, 'what about speaking to the person sitting next to you in the car? If we ban using the speaker phone, shouldn't we ban that as well?' And then someone else said: 'If we ban talking alltogether, what about thinking? Surely thinking about other stuff can be a distaction whilst driving! Should we ban thinking?'
So they can listen to the CVRs. If a pilot doesn't know that he needs to pay attention during the approach, if he's not talking to the person sitting next to him it doesn't mean that he will be paying attention. He may be daydreaming. So what's next? Recording your brain waves?!
Then there were a few accidents where people were using the speaker of the mobile and were distracted from driving so it was suggested that talking on the mobile using the speaker phone should also be banned.
But then someone said, 'what about speaking to the person sitting next to you in the car? If we ban using the speaker phone, shouldn't we ban that as well?' And then someone else said: 'If we ban talking alltogether, what about thinking? Surely thinking about other stuff can be a distaction whilst driving! Should we ban thinking?'
So they can listen to the CVRs. If a pilot doesn't know that he needs to pay attention during the approach, if he's not talking to the person sitting next to him it doesn't mean that he will be paying attention. He may be daydreaming. So what's next? Recording your brain waves?!
LNAV VNAV;
The future of brain-controlled devices - CNN.com
NeuroSky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And some think that fly-by-wire is "not really flying the airplane"?... This may be at the "toy and gamer" stage right now, but...
Recording your brain waves?!
NeuroSky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And some think that fly-by-wire is "not really flying the airplane"?... This may be at the "toy and gamer" stage right now, but...
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Management
And..What about recording all the managerīs activities??
Actually , the real s!"#$ comes from their offices. They are the guys who with their BS take lots of airlines to bankrupcy every year...
I am 39 , still have to fly 25 years, but I`m already completely tired of this profession and its burocratic rules made by tie idiots who spend most of their time scratching the balls and the rest of their time figuring out stupid ideas.
But what takes me to exaustion is to hear from sheepy coleagues. The ones who act like sheeps , saying yes to all BS , either because they believe themselves superior to others or because they are simply "yes men".
Actually , the real s!"#$ comes from their offices. They are the guys who with their BS take lots of airlines to bankrupcy every year...
I am 39 , still have to fly 25 years, but I`m already completely tired of this profession and its burocratic rules made by tie idiots who spend most of their time scratching the balls and the rest of their time figuring out stupid ideas.
But what takes me to exaustion is to hear from sheepy coleagues. The ones who act like sheeps , saying yes to all BS , either because they believe themselves superior to others or because they are simply "yes men".
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I totally agree.
In every corporation should have a "transcriptor" who recorded every meeting, every conversation, and kept a log of each decision, each event, each fact, when it occurred, who said what, etc...
At least in those corporations where management decisions can affect the safety and lives of many many more people than the passengers of an airliner. Including, of course, Airbus, Boeing, Honeywell...
When some problem occurred, investigators would just take a look at the transcriptions and use the recordings to find who was responsible.
If they are going to monitor our conversations even if nothing has happened yet, what is going to be the penalty for the misuse of it (including leakages) by the management?
they cannot guarantee that they will be used properly.
Remember that "we are going down, Larry!__I know, I know...!"?
In every corporation should have a "transcriptor" who recorded every meeting, every conversation, and kept a log of each decision, each event, each fact, when it occurred, who said what, etc...
At least in those corporations where management decisions can affect the safety and lives of many many more people than the passengers of an airliner. Including, of course, Airbus, Boeing, Honeywell...
When some problem occurred, investigators would just take a look at the transcriptions and use the recordings to find who was responsible.
If they are going to monitor our conversations even if nothing has happened yet, what is going to be the penalty for the misuse of it (including leakages) by the management?
they cannot guarantee that they will be used properly.
Remember that "we are going down, Larry!__I know, I know...!"?
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On another thread, there is allegedly a Qatar Airways crew that HAS been fired for derogatory remarks about the CEO............ no mention as to whether it was 10,000' or below.
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EU-OPS 1.160(c)(1):
(c) Use of recordings
1. The cockpit voice recorder recordings may not be used for purposes other than for the investigation of an accident or incident subject to mandatory reporting except with the consent of all crew members concerned.
(c) Use of recordings
1. The cockpit voice recorder recordings may not be used for purposes other than for the investigation of an accident or incident subject to mandatory reporting except with the consent of all crew members concerned.
