Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Irish ATC Disruption 20 Jan 2010

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Irish ATC Disruption 20 Jan 2010

Old 19th Jan 2010, 12:13
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Middlesex
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Irish ATC Disruption 20 Jan 2010

Just announced on RTE that irish air traffic controllers will be on strike from 2pm -6pm 20th Jan 2010. This will close not only the main airports including Dublin, Cork, Shannon, but also Irish airspace for over-flights.
holyflyer is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2010, 19:22
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Craggy Island....the west is best
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
According to the news, ATC paid 120K+ per year and looking for an increase..... Ryanair f/o's 24K..... Somethings gone seriously wrong with the industry me thinks


Rant over
3bars is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2010, 20:43
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ryanair f/o's 24K
Jesus, what contract are you on. Even the new offer of a DUB based FO Ryanair contract was 4k more than that! Not that anyone I know accepted it!
Callsign Kilo is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2010, 21:18
  #4 (permalink)  
Ber Nooly
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Here's the IAA's argument... Irish Aviation Authority - Update from the Irish Aviation Authority

and IMPACT's ......well, er, they don't even mention it on their website. Any ATCs on here willing to enlighten us? Or do you want 6% for that too?
 
Old 19th Jan 2010, 22:17
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Belfast
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thread running in the ATC forum.
Irish ATC is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 06:55
  #6 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 73
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Be careful of the spinning.
Irish ATC controllers point of view here 2010 Irish ATC dispute – get the facts

The thread in the ATC Forum covers it better than here.
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 09:17
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So the underlying motive to strike, as put by the union, was that 15 contollers were suspended by the IAA. The cause is failing to comply with the introduction of new technology (is that correct?) The controllers believe that the introduction of new technology and working practices has increased pressure and has allowed the job to become more stessfull? However, lurking in the background, is a 6% pay increase which the IAA will not honour. So if they honour the 6% and bring your colleagues back to work, will ATC comply with the new technology and will the job become less stressful knowing that you have an extra 6% gross on your salary?

Keeping in mind that capacity has dropped (Ryanair say up to 25% - open for debate due to the source). Average ATC payment in Ireland is 112K (is that correct?) However introductory level is around 55k. With 6% that will raise to 58.3K. And already something like 30.65% of your salary is placed in your pension fund by the authority.

So who funds this, the struggling airlines? Can't see that escaping resistance, as a result you may have even less work to do due to capacity dropping further! The government...nope, not intersted - why should they be?. Airports....doubtful! IAA customers besides the airlines...well I can see some charges being risen there undoubtably. Even if the IAA has the money to pay you an extra 6% a year NOW they will hide this fact and look to source the lost revenue externally.

I've been an FO of a mid sized airliner for two years and don't earn 55K. I can't see many guys in my position supporting your industrial action i'm affraid. If you get your way its our employers who will bare the brunt of it. And that will filter down to us. Always does!

Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 20th Jan 2010 at 10:03.
Callsign Kilo is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 09:29
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Put out to graze
Age: 64
Posts: 1,046
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Wouldnt it be nice if airlines gave their pilots an extra 6% when they change aircraft types!

All that extra 'stress' with the introduction of new technology must be rewarded, or should it - after all, we're just doing the job we are paid for!!!!!!
kick the tires is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 10:41
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Éire
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wouldnt it be nice if airlines gave their pilots an extra 6% when they change aircraft types!

All that extra 'stress' with the introduction of new technology must be rewarded, or should it - after all, we're just doing the job we are paid for!!!!!!
EXACTLY could not have put it better myself
737-500 is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 11:13
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 941
Received 26 Likes on 10 Posts
At least the ATCs are putting up a fight to maintain/improve their conditions. In the name of getting up hours pilots forgot how to do that a long time ago. No body forces pilots to work for that pay, do those long hours. We as an industry have self inflicted that upon ourselves. So if you signed up for a wage and conditions that are less than others, well dry your eyes and don't have a go at a group of people who are willing to improve their lot.
ozbiggles is online now  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 11:43
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well said Biggles, sitting on the other side of the world looking in. I don't know how things are 'down unda' at the moment, but in Ireland they are on their arse. High rates of unemployment, failing economy in nearly ever sector, businesses collapsing or relocating overseas, tax, income levy and national insurance hikes in order to bail out the economy, appauling weather and disruption, widescale flooding leaving large sections of the community homeless......the list is endless...endless!

If they want to protect their interests, fine...nothing against that. Do it from a position of strength. The public will only see this as additional misery at a time when misery is abound. When they hear some of the figures involved there will be nothing but resentment directed at the controllers. Cold hard face of it!
Callsign Kilo is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 11:46
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Put out to graze
Age: 64
Posts: 1,046
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Well said Biggles, sitting on the other side of the world looking in. I don't know how things down unda are at the moment, but in Ireland they are on their arse. High rates of unemployment, failing economy in nearly ever sector, businesses collapsing or relocating overseas, tax, income levy and national insurance hikes in order to bail out the economy, appauling weather and disruption, widescale flooding leaving large sections of the community homeless......the list is endless...endless
and how does striking for an extra 6% help that little lot?
kick the tires is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 12:19
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Irish economy, and the Irish aviation industry have been in meltdown for the last couple of years. To think the average ATCO package is €160,000 is unbelievable. Have they taken (like everybody else has) any salary reductions in recent times? (10% + has been the norm). Looking for a 6% rise in the current economic climate beggars belief. Do they care about jeopardising jobs in an already struggling Irish aviation business? Do they care about the damage they are doing to Ireland's faltering international reputation? Are these the same people that struggled to achieve anywhere near international standards on single runway movements at DUB during peak times? There are very few flight deck crew on this sort of renumeration.

There is a time and a place for everything, as a group of people you have got this completley wrong, there are industrial mechanisms in place for dispute resolution, why not follow them. Get real, or the government should adopt a Reagan type solution.
iwhak is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 13:12
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Got the radio on.
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To think the average ATCO package is €160,000 is unbelievable.
Unbelievable because, of course, it isn't. I'm not an Irish ATCO but, as I understand it, that figure relates to someone at the top of the scale and includes all employment costs ie.- employer's pension contribution etc. The basic average salary is nowhere near this figure.
Roadrunner Once is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 13:33
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The basic average salary is nowhere near this figure
Well the introductory salary is 55K. Plus a 30.65% pension contribution which the employees do not contribute to. What else on top of that? Health Cover? Allowances?? Contractual agreements? What is the tier system for an ATCO? When's the next pay raise?

They are having their arse wiped for them in every corner. Cowan has come out and said the general public should not have to pay for their grievances. That's what the Labour Court is for.

And the comment is totally apt regarding single runway utilisation at peak periods at EIDW. You are totally screwed if RW10 is in use! Speed up, slow down, hold, 20nm finals.

Maybe a few days in Gatwick or Stansted would be of use. Then they would really understand the meaning of 'stressful.'

What a load of Bullsh1t!
Callsign Kilo is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 13:56
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think this strike will focus public attention on the 'Package' provided to ATCO's who through nothing short of greed see it as their right to hold a country to ransom at very short notice. An I'm alright Jack and to hell with everyone else attitude.

Here is a prime example of how Trade unions run things into the ground and can't see the wood for the trees.

There has been a general decline in defined benefit schemes, the costs of providing them are excessive and unsustainable.

Get actuaries to value the scheme with a view to changing it to a defined contribution one and let the employees work to put money aside for themselves to provide for their own retirement years.

If such well paid individuals cannot provide without interuption the services they are being paid to then let them forfeit their jobs and have replacements organised.
Sober Lark is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 14:22
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Closing every major airport in the country will make Ireland the laughing stock of Europe.

The IMPACT trade union aswell as every other trade union in Ireland should be ran out of the country. Watching the IMPACT trade union spokesperson last night on the rte news was making my blood boil. He would not answer a single question that was put to him and he thinks its a good idea to strike. Does he not realise the aviation industry is on its knees. Two Irsh airlines are on the brink and this is what IMPACT do too help the situation??

MOL is right to keep the trade unions out of Ryanair. They are useless and do nothing only look out for themselves. If airlines go bust and there are no planes in the sky there are no need for air traffic controllers so the trade union is not helping its members at all!
EI-CON is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 14:26
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not just in Ireland

Firstly the IAA is obligated to recover its operating costs from it customers - the airlines, so we know who will pay. IAA would seem to be doing the right thing especially when at least one local carrier is on its knees.

Second the ATCO's are well paid by any standard, and usually the work hours are not to onerous. And where else do you get a non contributory pension of 30%!?

Go on strike? Make a fuss about new equipment? keep your head down, keep quiet and hope no-one finds out more like!

Third its not just ireland. In Spain where controllers are paid rather more (perhaps double Ireland) the public have recently become aware of this "gravy train"

There was a piece in the Spanish News last week about controllers now being targettted to abuse by angry tax payers, daubing paint on controllers houses, vandalising cars etc...

Chickens will come home to roost in Ireland and elsewhere.

I predict an unpleasant year or two for the ATCO fraternity.

Katy
Kiwitraveller is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 14:47
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 87
Received 7 Likes on 2 Posts
The real problem in Ireland is that Public Sector trades unions have been over-indulged by governments for years (under the guise of "partnership"). So while pay cuts have been quite common in the Private sector and pay levels generally lower, the public sector unions gone on a gigantic sulk when they were levied for contributions for generous pension schemes, and when their pay was cut.

The biggest difference is that the Public Sector guys have virtually total immunity from compulsory redundancy, while the Private sector has had huge redundancy levels. Pubilc sector levels of pay are sill at a handsome premium compared with provate sector, and even more handsome when compared with like occupations in the UK and W.Europe - not only ATCOS, but nurses, doctors, teachers, police.....

The Ryanair comment that even though traffic and ATCO workloads are down significantly, but there have been no redundancies, is for once spot on. Totally in contrast to other poor devils working in the air transport industry.
Economics101 is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2010, 14:49
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Does he not realise the aviation industry is on its knees. Two Irsh airlines are on the brink and this is what IMPACT do too help the situation??
They couldn't give a toss because they are unwilling to see beyond the moment. External circumstances don't raise union fees or lobby votes. They refuse to answer awkward questions regarding the knock on economic effect or public disruption because it simply isn't any of their concern. It is always somebody elses fault at the end of the day.

I mean suggesting the implementation of new technolgy as the root cause of this action makes a mockery of the public. Everybody knows why aviation in Ireland has come to a grinding hault today!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$
Callsign Kilo is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.