BA - 1800 jobs to go this year
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more...............
The company said it aimed to achieve the "headcount reduction" through voluntary means such as natural wastage.
The news of where the savings are to be made was given to GBM union officials at a meeting with the BA today:
450 among support staff
250 in customer services
200 in engineering
350in world sales and cargo
100 in flight operations
The airline said its workforce had already reduced by 3000 staff in the last year
through voluntary means.
Edited with more info.
[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: Gordo. ]
The company said it aimed to achieve the "headcount reduction" through voluntary means such as natural wastage.
The news of where the savings are to be made was given to GBM union officials at a meeting with the BA today:
450 among support staff
250 in customer services
200 in engineering
350in world sales and cargo
100 in flight operations
The airline said its workforce had already reduced by 3000 staff in the last year
through voluntary means.
Edited with more info.
[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: Gordo. ]
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Short and sweet there PPT!
From the BBC;
British Airways has told unions it is cutting 1,800 jobs by the end of the year.
The company said it aimed to achieve the "headcount reduction" through voluntary redundancies and natural wastage.
Engineers, cabin crew and customer services staff will be among those affected by the cutback.
Operating profits have nearly halved at British Airways, but the airline claims its strategy of focusing on high value customers is starting to pay-off.
BA recorded a pre-tax profit of £40m for the three months to June, compared to a £50m loss for the same quarter last year.
But this year's figure includes the £100m profit the company made when it sold its no-frills airline Go in June.
More soon.
From the BBC;
British Airways has told unions it is cutting 1,800 jobs by the end of the year.
The company said it aimed to achieve the "headcount reduction" through voluntary redundancies and natural wastage.
Engineers, cabin crew and customer services staff will be among those affected by the cutback.
Operating profits have nearly halved at British Airways, but the airline claims its strategy of focusing on high value customers is starting to pay-off.
BA recorded a pre-tax profit of £40m for the three months to June, compared to a £50m loss for the same quarter last year.
But this year's figure includes the £100m profit the company made when it sold its no-frills airline Go in June.
More soon.
PPRuNe Person
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There's plenty of wastage going on at the moment - 270 peeps per airframe! A reduction in head-count of 1800 should take it down to - ooh, lets see, (sucks on pencil) - err, about 262?
Puts it into perspective about how this is only scratching the surface.
[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: overstress ]
Puts it into perspective about how this is only scratching the surface.
[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: overstress ]
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Two points;
firstly, why the front line staff to go and not the Waterworld cappucino drinkers?
Secondly, if they made a £40m profit for the three months to June, compared to a £50m loss for the same quarter last year, and that includes the 100M for GO, then logically if you take away the GO money from the pot what you actually have is a 60M loss, which correct me if I'm wrong is bigger than a 50M loss. So that doesn't prove the theory about high yield pax now, does it?
firstly, why the front line staff to go and not the Waterworld cappucino drinkers?
Secondly, if they made a £40m profit for the three months to June, compared to a £50m loss for the same quarter last year, and that includes the 100M for GO, then logically if you take away the GO money from the pot what you actually have is a 60M loss, which correct me if I'm wrong is bigger than a 50M loss. So that doesn't prove the theory about high yield pax now, does it?
Mistrust in Management
According to the BBC B.A. also stated that there would be further redundancies next year.
It would seem that all the 'suits' are to remain, for the time being anyway.
Regards
Exeng
It would seem that all the 'suits' are to remain, for the time being anyway.
Regards
Exeng
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According to the Daily Express financial pages today, BA are going to make a loss of £65m this year instead of the predicted £150m profit.
Interesting to see if the pilots get their pay increases.
Interesting to see if the pilots get their pay increases.
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Out of interest, your so called Waterworld cappucino drinkers, would they not be included in support staff....if not, what grouping would they be included in?
The last year total of job cuts was 3,000 and this year is 1,800 (so far)...that is around 7% of the total workforce over 2 years(4,800/65,000)...SERIOUSLY what % would people think is sensible...and I am assuming that everybody thinks they need to come from 'the suits'?
Not trying to stir it up, but do BA not need to slim down the numbers of cabin crew as in fitting with the new strategy, less passengers are being carried (Please note that I don't think just cabin crew numbers should be reduced!)
Please serious answers only....ducking for the barrage!
The last year total of job cuts was 3,000 and this year is 1,800 (so far)...that is around 7% of the total workforce over 2 years(4,800/65,000)...SERIOUSLY what % would people think is sensible...and I am assuming that everybody thinks they need to come from 'the suits'?
Not trying to stir it up, but do BA not need to slim down the numbers of cabin crew as in fitting with the new strategy, less passengers are being carried (Please note that I don't think just cabin crew numbers should be reduced!)
Please serious answers only....ducking for the barrage!
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I know BA needs to control the cost of new capital it might want to raise and presumably thats why they keep paying out more in dividends than they earn. But the share price keeps going down and you can't pay out all your retained earnings for ever. How about the fat cats in the city having to take it on the chin for a change - and not just the staff?
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Mmmh - Interesting that each group blames the other!
The feeling amongst the suits is that they've taken all the headcount hits so far and although we now fly less pax than before we still have the same number of cabin crew and pilots so it's about time you guys felt some of the pain too.
Looks as though the cuts will be more evenly spread across the board this time. I think the comparison some of you make about 'suits' to aircraft is erroneous. You compare BA with airlines such as Easyjet and Virgin who outsource most of their support functions and so don't have IT, Engineering etc of their own.
The vast majority of 'suits' I know work bloody hard for BA and have a genuine commitment to it being a success. There are a few rotten apples in every basket but many of the 'suits' are incredibly frustrated by a culture where bean counters rule and there's too much bureaocracy.
The suits include a great majority of hard working people who plan the fleet, sell the tickets, buy the planes, run the IT, email the customers and design the advertising. They have families and mortgages too and when they hear the word redundancy they fear for their families just the same as you guys do.
Fact is like every airline at the moment we are in a pickle. We've more chance of getting out of it if we pull together and understand what we can all contribute. I know without pilots there's be no airline, but the same can be said for the guys in Newcastle answering the phone and I think earlier this year we all realised how important the IT fellas are too when that went belly up.
Perhaps not a popular view but an attempt to achieve a balance of perspective here.
Desk-pilot
The feeling amongst the suits is that they've taken all the headcount hits so far and although we now fly less pax than before we still have the same number of cabin crew and pilots so it's about time you guys felt some of the pain too.
Looks as though the cuts will be more evenly spread across the board this time. I think the comparison some of you make about 'suits' to aircraft is erroneous. You compare BA with airlines such as Easyjet and Virgin who outsource most of their support functions and so don't have IT, Engineering etc of their own.
The vast majority of 'suits' I know work bloody hard for BA and have a genuine commitment to it being a success. There are a few rotten apples in every basket but many of the 'suits' are incredibly frustrated by a culture where bean counters rule and there's too much bureaocracy.
The suits include a great majority of hard working people who plan the fleet, sell the tickets, buy the planes, run the IT, email the customers and design the advertising. They have families and mortgages too and when they hear the word redundancy they fear for their families just the same as you guys do.
Fact is like every airline at the moment we are in a pickle. We've more chance of getting out of it if we pull together and understand what we can all contribute. I know without pilots there's be no airline, but the same can be said for the guys in Newcastle answering the phone and I think earlier this year we all realised how important the IT fellas are too when that went belly up.
Perhaps not a popular view but an attempt to achieve a balance of perspective here.
Desk-pilot
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So, BA has problems. How many European 'flag' carriers are also having a few financial worries? (Swissair and Sabena come to mind).
Instead of ditching Go, it should have looked to enhance its operation. I see the classics are for retirement, but I always understood that they were destined to be used by Go. No frills long haul. Go submitted route applications to loads of far away destinations.
So is anyone surprised at the BA downfall?
Good luck Go, Ryanair and easyJet, all it needs now is a low-cost to operate long-haul!
Job losses are an inevitable concequence of 'value' for shareholders. Short-term profit over long-term strategy?
Instead of ditching Go, it should have looked to enhance its operation. I see the classics are for retirement, but I always understood that they were destined to be used by Go. No frills long haul. Go submitted route applications to loads of far away destinations.
So is anyone surprised at the BA downfall?
Good luck Go, Ryanair and easyJet, all it needs now is a low-cost to operate long-haul!
Job losses are an inevitable concequence of 'value' for shareholders. Short-term profit over long-term strategy?
Mistrust in Management
Desk-pilot,
With reference to you first paragraph regarding 'suits', headcount hits', 'pilots' and 'pain'.
I would have to say that unless all the 'suits' start brushing up on their ATPL's it is very unlikely that Pilots will be made redundant in the near future. In fact we are still busy training new entrant Pilots right now.
I'm pleased that the majority of 'suits' you know work very hard and are committed to the airlines success. Likewise most of the people I have contact with (in many departments, 'suits' included) are of the same inclination. Nevertheless I doubt the 'pain' will be evenly applied or even felt at all in some departments. Take the BA board for example, how much pain do you think they will be made to feel? My guess is probably not a lot, which some may consider a touch unfair when you look over the past few years.
You state "Fact is like every airline at the moment we are in a pickle". Call me picky but I'm afraid I don't agree, many airlines are in a pickle but not all.
I do of course sympathize with anyone who is unfortunate enough to find themselves affected by this latest round of job cuts. In the past BA has proved itself as a caring employer and managed cuts through 'natural wastage', I hope this time will be no different.
Regards
Exeng
With reference to you first paragraph regarding 'suits', headcount hits', 'pilots' and 'pain'.
I would have to say that unless all the 'suits' start brushing up on their ATPL's it is very unlikely that Pilots will be made redundant in the near future. In fact we are still busy training new entrant Pilots right now.
I'm pleased that the majority of 'suits' you know work very hard and are committed to the airlines success. Likewise most of the people I have contact with (in many departments, 'suits' included) are of the same inclination. Nevertheless I doubt the 'pain' will be evenly applied or even felt at all in some departments. Take the BA board for example, how much pain do you think they will be made to feel? My guess is probably not a lot, which some may consider a touch unfair when you look over the past few years.
You state "Fact is like every airline at the moment we are in a pickle". Call me picky but I'm afraid I don't agree, many airlines are in a pickle but not all.
I do of course sympathize with anyone who is unfortunate enough to find themselves affected by this latest round of job cuts. In the past BA has proved itself as a caring employer and managed cuts through 'natural wastage', I hope this time will be no different.
Regards
Exeng
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Lou is right, it sounds like another round of getting rid of staff, only to re-employ them when it's realised that they actually did something! I only hope that they can really do this by retirements etc, rather than anyone getting the chop, only to be taken back later.
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Exeng,
I take your point and I think you're right the board have made some terrible errors which they rarely really feel the pain of.
I am reassured by your comment that you continue to foresee a need for pilots to be hired. I'm about to leave my suit job behind and self fund an ATPL in order to join you all at the sharp end. I got to final selection in 1991 only to have recruitment frozen and my lifetime career aspiration dashed - I don't need a repeat of that.
Let's hope as you say that nobody will suffer compulsory job loss in any dept.
Clear skies,
Desk pilot
I take your point and I think you're right the board have made some terrible errors which they rarely really feel the pain of.
I am reassured by your comment that you continue to foresee a need for pilots to be hired. I'm about to leave my suit job behind and self fund an ATPL in order to join you all at the sharp end. I got to final selection in 1991 only to have recruitment frozen and my lifetime career aspiration dashed - I don't need a repeat of that.
Let's hope as you say that nobody will suffer compulsory job loss in any dept.
Clear skies,
Desk pilot
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Everyone
Of course any redundancies affect people, and most of us have mortgages and as such are affected and concerned at our abilities to provide for our loved ones, that's natural and I'm sure that no one would have any issue on that point.
However, whichever way you look at it, the numbers at BA do not add up. Despite divesting many functions over the Ayling years through a policy of outsourcing various tasks (be it Engineering functions (wheels, brakes and eng overhaul) and catering, security etcetc, we [and yes I am a Nigel, within BA] still have 250+ employees per aircraft in comparison to DLH et al of 220-ish, who by the way, still retain the aforementioned functions plus others in-house.
So, when taking this in conjunction with a policy of reducing capacity and transferring work to BMed, GB, BRAL, etc, and the numbers at HQ inexorably rising, what do you think is required - more people as an overhead per aircraft, or fewer?
Well, I know what I believe, and when I heard the news that jobs were to be shed at BA, and that the number was ONLY 1800 and that they were coming from in the main frontline staff, then I thought f*** me, that will require 2000 more staff at Waterside to manage the process, and THAT IS WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES..... we need to shed 10,000 non-frontline staff. That alone will improve annual profitability by £1bn pa.
Any arguments?
I think not.....
Of course any redundancies affect people, and most of us have mortgages and as such are affected and concerned at our abilities to provide for our loved ones, that's natural and I'm sure that no one would have any issue on that point.
However, whichever way you look at it, the numbers at BA do not add up. Despite divesting many functions over the Ayling years through a policy of outsourcing various tasks (be it Engineering functions (wheels, brakes and eng overhaul) and catering, security etcetc, we [and yes I am a Nigel, within BA] still have 250+ employees per aircraft in comparison to DLH et al of 220-ish, who by the way, still retain the aforementioned functions plus others in-house.
So, when taking this in conjunction with a policy of reducing capacity and transferring work to BMed, GB, BRAL, etc, and the numbers at HQ inexorably rising, what do you think is required - more people as an overhead per aircraft, or fewer?
Well, I know what I believe, and when I heard the news that jobs were to be shed at BA, and that the number was ONLY 1800 and that they were coming from in the main frontline staff, then I thought f*** me, that will require 2000 more staff at Waterside to manage the process, and THAT IS WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES..... we need to shed 10,000 non-frontline staff. That alone will improve annual profitability by £1bn pa.
Any arguments?
I think not.....
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Getting rid of the President and Chairman should shave well over a million quid from the company's bottom line - and much of BA's woes are directly attributable to that pair. That said, John King did an excellent job transforming BA from a state enterprise to a public one - shame he was rather immoral in some of his actions!
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Im just a bit worried here, if BA keep losing money, then surely their pilot sponsorship training scheme will go too? as a potential future user of this scheme (subject to the application process of course 
). At the moment, this seems to be my only way into aviation, so naturally im a bit concerned....
). At the moment, this seems to be my only way into aviation, so naturally im a bit concerned....